Tuchux banned from Pennsic?

[Cat of Black Talon]

C'mon, don't bust on my movie!

I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.

[Cedric]

Yup

And I've both seen fighters swap helmets and heard them brag about getting 'spares' inspected 'just in case they get caught'. By the time I could get a marshal's attention, they beam out.

What difference would "spares" make? Still has your medallion number on it.

"Oh, I loaned my helmet to that guy".. tough shit. Your number, you are out. SOrry.

Do they have any way of checking helmet numbers before every battle?

If I had a "spare" helmet and got yanked from fighting, what would stop me from just grabbing the "spare" and going out the next day? No one cross checks numbers to helmets before battles (or any other time). If I had a pile of spares, what would stop me from fighting in a different helmet every day?

After inspection, I have never had anyone at Pennsic make any attempt at verifying my identity. No one ever looked twice at me after I got the magic inspection sticker plastered to the side of my helmet. Cheating the system at Pennsic would be remarkably easy, especially so if someone had a large crowd of similarly dressed people to blend into...

[CTrumbore]

Yup

And I've both seen fighters swap helmets and heard them brag about getting 'spares' inspected 'just in case they get caught'. By the time I could get a marshal's attention, they beam out.

What difference would "spares" make? Still has your medallion number on it.

"Oh, I loaned my helmet to that guy".. tough shit. Your number, you are out. SOrry.

Do they have any way of checking helmet numbers before every battle?

If I had a "spare" helmet and got yanked from fighting, what would stop me from just grabbing the "spare" and going out the next day? No one cross checks numbers to helmets before battles (or any other time). If I had a pile of spares, what would stop me from fighting in a different helmet every day?

After inspection, I have never had anyone at Pennsic make any attempt at verifying my identity. No one ever looked twice at me after I got the magic inspection sticker plastered to the side of my helmet. Cheating the system at Pennsic would be remarkably easy, especially so if someone had a large crowd of similarly dressed people to blend into...

A number of people at Pennsic run multiple kits every year.. "spare" helmets are nothing new, or odd. It's not like they TAKE your helmet if you are caught doing something naughty. You can go up and get 8 helmets inspected with your medallion number, if you want.

People keep saying "similarly dressed" people. As opposed to the THOUSANDS out there in generi-plate?

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Yes- exactly. I am tired of being stuck in The 13th Warrior. Somebody is always trying to wipe cow piss on me.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Which is a bummer V - because watching the CoTT, fighting with you, hanging out and talking are some of my favorite parts of Pennsic.

[Stefan ap Llewelyn]

Which is a bummer V - because watching the CoTT, fighting with you, hanging out and talking are some of my favorite parts of Pennsic.

He's fine with that, just stop trying to wipe cow piss on him!

[Malachiuri]

"A number of people at Pennsic run multiple kits every year.. "spare" helmets are nothing new, or odd. It's not like they TAKE your helmet if you are caught doing something naughty. You can go up and get 8 helmets inspected with your medallion number, if you want."


They certainly used to take your helm. I had a naughty moment years ago and my helm was taken by the marshals and I could only retrieve it at the end of day meeting.

That was sometime in the early 2000s.

Not a bad thing to return to.

[losthelm]

The good thing about snagging a helm is that the numbers are right there to track down who did the inspection and who the person responsible for the helm is.
The mayor, his deputy and I think the watch commander are the only people with access to the data base.
If they need to track you down at camp instead of dealing with other problems they are not going to be happy.

At pennsic those people really have better things to do then deal with drama lamas.

[Paladin74]

C'mon, don't bust on my movie!

I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.

Its a good movie, with some really iconic moments (and characters- Herger the Joyous might be my favorite personality in any movie I've ever seen) but from a historical aspect it was an assorted mishmash much like King Arthur (altho they did try to look the part). I really enjoyed that movie too- but I don't look to Hollywood for historical lessons or accuracy so it isn't as jarring for me as it is for some who seem to think that Hollywood will one day cater to our type of crowd.

I disagree...no money in it for them.

[CTrumbore]

It was never MEANT to be a historical movie. It was Eaters of the Dead by Crichton..

n an afterword in the novel Crichton gives a few comments on its origin. A good friend of Crichton's was giving a lecture on the "Bores of Literature". Included in his lecture was an argument on Beowulf and why it was simply uninteresting. Crichton stated his views that the story was not a bore and was, in fact, a very interesting work. The argument escalated until Crichton stated that he would prove to him that the story could be interesting if presented in the correct way.

In a seemingly offhand reference, Abdul Alḥaẓred's Necronomicon (of H. P. Lovecraft fame) is quoted in the in-character bibliography.

[Paladin74]

Yea, I know the story behind it; was just stating that for the ones who go "ZOMG I SEE ANACHROJIZMZ HERE" as if they expected a documentary. I'm a Crichton fan, having read a few of his books that turned into movies; I liked Rising Sun and Jurassic Park, as well as Timeline. For Timeline, there were swords that were made for the movie, which I did enjoy despite the departure from the source material in small key elements.

[Cat of Black Talon]

Heh---Hey there librarian ... Yes, I'm looking for Eaters of the Dead by Michael Crichton.

The movie script is short and most of it is quote-able; action is long. Vladimir Kulich has maybe five sentences in the entire movie. Interesting mixture of cultures. I like the movie because all the men are men in their late 30s, 40s and 50s. They look like men, not skinny Hollywood boyz.

They cut a lot of the film to get it to the mainstream audience. Lost lots of background.

[54ever]

Hey in the Army, when the Lt could not find out who smarted off in the crowd. The whole platoon did pushups.

Well no one ever said the Army had any common sense, ether.

[54ever]

Alright, I've heard enough of everyone's ghost stories and moaning and groaning. The Tuchux are not SCA. We fight with similar weapons and similar armor, but not the same rule set. The way we fight is by any means necessary to kill the opponent. Whether that be by sword, spear or tap out. Can you punch? Yes. Can you kick? Yes. Can you grapple them in the air and throw them against the ground? Yes. We practice martial arts mixed with rattan weapon fighting. We train in the way of the warrior, not the white steeded knight. And I'm sure if you've watched the Tuchux tourney you would already know of what I'm talking about. Now, with that being said, when we attend an SCA event (Pennsic, Blackstone Raids, Gulf Wars or backyard practice) we play by their rules. Old dogs have been doing it long enough to know how to switch from Tuchux playset to SCA during any event. New dogs are told over and over what to do and not to do on the field. Is it sometimes difficult to switch my mode of fighting? Yes. Once in a while on a charge my instinct will kick in and I'll reactivity bash my shield into the oncoming line without thinking. Slip ups happen. And I know its not just us. To talk about honor and respect on the battlefield that's filled with 700 men who are all filled with adrenaline and testosterone is just ludicrous to believe that no ones going to get butt-hurt. Lets say the Tuchux are kicked out of Pennsic. Ok, Tuchux are gone. No more Tuchux. Really ask yourself, is the butt-hurt going to go away? Will everyone now take your shots without saying "light"? Will no one accidentally kick you while you are on the ground and 200 people trample over you? And if you are so concerned about the safety and well being of yourself, why the FUCK are you playing a heavy armored combat sport? Chess is medieval, go play that. Rapier, foam-fighting, Sumo, whatever. You're going to get hurt and if you think otherwise, it's time to rethink your life. Listen, I'm not here to call anyone a dumbass, or ruffle any feathers. I'm just here to say it isn't the Tuchux as a whole who are out to break off everyones arms and legs and spit in their face. If we did we wouldnt have anyone to fight next year and that wouldn't make for a glorious fight, now would it? And if I had a problem with individual fighters on the battlefield, I'd keep it in individual cases.

Oowah Black Talons
Tuchux54life

[54ever]

By the way, there's no such thing as a "Chuk, Chux"

[Paladin74]

I hear you, but it sounds like your outfit is responsible for the majority of offenses on the field whenever your group is present, hence the discussion. Not having a dog in this fight it makes little difference to me, but I'm of the mind that if there's anyone out there who subverts the ruleset to enhance their own game to the detriment of everyone else should be booted; end of story. I wouldn't do the entire group unless its obvious they're all trying to hide the offendor.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

The real issue is the perceived tendancy of the Tuchux to not "take ownership" when one of your group breaks the rules. You'll fade back into your group and everyone will deny they saw the fighter, or you'll blow off the marshall's court, etc...

Now that doesn't mean some of that doesn't occur in other units at Pennsic - but it tends to happen more OFTEN with you guys.

Does THAT make sense?

[54ever]

And to what statistic are we more troublesome? I can agree that we are the most popular to talk about on this subject, but I've seen just as much bullshit on the SCA side as ours.

[54ever]

And not for nothing, but I myself have also have been called out for false claims, so I know there are some people out there, not all, but some who make some of this up. My example is one year at Pennsic during a tower battle, a marshal pulled me aside and told me that he needed to speak to me. So I stepped aside with him and asked what's up. Apparently an unnamed person told him that I had viciously beaten him while he was laying in the fetal position. At this point I was flipping shit to this claim (I didn't do anything of that nature, why would I divert my attention from the battle to injure a fighter who was out of the skirmish?), but still had to sit out of the battle. So I know not every SCA holds chivalry in their heart.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Not saying that doesn't happen. Not denying it. And I'm not anti-Tuchux by any measure - I'm friends with Animal, Bytor, Scar and a couple others.

I'm telling you what your reputation is. As I told Animal, who you revel in being the "bad guys" - as the Tuchux have - don't be surprised when people treat you that way.

Now from PERSONAL experience, some of your guys - especially the younger ones, are real quick to get pissed and start cussing out the guy on the other side. If you were a Marshall, standing there while someone is screaming, calling a guy on the otherside a motherfucker, telling them "I'm gonna fucking kick your ass", and "I'll see you after the battle, Motherfucker" and the like (I was there) - what are you going to think?

You guys went to Blackstone, fought the same opponents, but now of the hassle - what was different?

[54ever]

With alot of younger dogs it's like I said, they've never experienced the amount of people and temperament, emotions, adrenaline, and all around rush of the fight. Or they're not used to it, but assuredly, they have been shown and taught SCA style of rules. Their actions are their own on the field of battle. And as for the black stone raids (I attended this year) we wanted to show Aethelmarc our support and strengthen our ties with the SCA and show that we can play nice and still be an extremely formidable force on the field.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Carry it through to Pennsic, and it'll go a long way to stopping threads like this.

I camp just down the road from you guys - stop by and say hi!

[Jasper]

Two chuck Rep.
"Hi I am Lord Con the Disgusting a well known author. Piss off you royals. Kiss my ass you knights. I am here to make fun of you. And we are going play my way."
years later
54ever in Charlie brown's voice. "why is everyone picking on me um us?"
54ever you joined "the outlaw biker gang of the Sca" What do you expect to happen?

[Cat of Black Talon]

Coming from you, Jasper, I imagine you saying this with a Southern drawl. You're makin' me laugh.

Cheers,
Cat

Two chuck Rep.
"Hi I am Lord Con the Disgusting a well known author. Piss off you royals. Kiss my ass you knights. I am here to make fun of you. And we are going play my way."
years later
54ever in Charlie brown's voice. "why is everyone picking on me um us?"
54ever you joined "the outlaw biker gang of the Sca" What do you expect to happen?

[Paladin74]

With alot of younger dogs it's like I said, they've never experienced the amount of people and temperament, emotions, adrenaline, and all around rush of the fight. Or they're not used to it, but assuredly, they have been shown and taught SCA style of rules. Their actions are their own on the field of battle. And as for the black stone raids (I attended this year) we wanted to show Aethelmarc our support and strengthen our ties with the SCA and show that we can play nice and still be an extremely formidable force on the field.

Train your younger dogs or keep'm leashed. You're attempting to speak for your organization w/out recognizing that you must first shoulder the responsibility of their actions en total if you wish to truly represent them. This means that for all the shit they've done, well, you've done it too so far as the casual observer is concerned.

As for you being wrongly called out by a Marshal mid-engagement, that does happen, and not just to you. They're human, just like everyone else in there trying to bash the other guy- they're job is to check for things like that. They make mistakes; it happens. He could also have just been an asshole. However, that's just one instance. Tuchux is notorious...and you guys appear to love it; except when its time to face the music.

[freiman the minstrel]

At the risk of sounding less than humble, how this is going to work out.

It will prove virtually impossible to keep the Tuchux off the field. It is mostly impossible keep the Tuchux from fighting as a unit. Policing who is allowed to fight next to who is virtually impossible. Their mercenary pay is going to suck this year.

There are going to be a lot more "Butt Hurt" people on the field. Some of them will be Tuchux. Some of them will "Kingdomers."

The Tuchuxs will attempt to set up their shade pavilion beside the field. Somebody will be sent to stop them. There will be language and hurt feelings.

There will be a lot of folks talking about how they ran into the Tuchux on the field. Some of them will have horror stories. Some of them will talk about how cool the Tuchux are.

There will be a few party encounters with the Tuchux. There will be a lot of complaining about it. This will happen regardless of whether or not any actual Tuchux are actually there. There will be people who believe that the Tuchux are not allowed at Pennsic, and are looking for the person they should report their "evidence" to.

Some folks will show up on the field with that Dead Kennedys Tuchux sigil on their shield, helm, whatever. The person bearing the shield, helm, or whatever will ask why they are not allowed to carry their "personal device" on their shield. There will be language and hurt feelings. The shields, helmets, whatever may or may not be banned from use.

At some point, a group will start chanting "Tooooo Chucks! Tooooo Chucks! Tooooo Chucks!" on the field. If the Tuchux don't do it, some other group will do it. Even odds (from me) as to whether or not it is 1) "Tuchux Kissups," 2) Somebody that thinks it will get the Tuchux in trouble, or 3) actual Tuchux. Even if it is just four or five people, the MIC will be forced to deal with "Tuchux sightings." Whether or not it was the Tuchux actually chanting, when confronted, whoever passes as the front man for the Tuchux will say "That wasn't us, but even if it was, why aren't we allowed to shout whatever battle cry we want?"

I am not a Tuchux. The truth is I honestly don't like their approach. It's not my game. I am not positive that my lack of approval just plain breaks their hearts. I do, however, know that the proper place to interact with the Tuchux is on the field.

On the whole, this is going to be one of the more interesting Pennsics in a few years.

f

[Nissan Maxima]

This issue is already solved.

[freiman the minstrel]

Sorry, tuned in late.

[olaf haraldson]

Hadn't heard. Cool.

This issue is already solved.

[CTrumbore]

Just ban whiny bitches from pennsic. Problem solved.

[olaf haraldson]

Awwwwww, but I wanna goooooo......

[Cat of Black Talon]

Just ban whiny bitches from pennsic. Problem solved.

Ohhhh...if this were only possible.

[Warin]

Tuchux sound like a fun bunch

Wish we had some out here in the West *maybe there are some around, I just havent met them*

[CTrumbore]

Awwwwww, but I wanna goooooo......

So go. Just don't piss and whine and cry about it when someone you judge to be below your social station actually hits you with a properly calibrated blow..
(last I checked, there's no loophole in the rules of the list that says you can rhino shots if you don't like how someone is dressed.. unless you are an atlantian duke or equivalent)

[olaf haraldson]

Hah! It doesn't get much below my social station dude.