Armet Visors

[Sean M]

Over on Facebook, Arne Koets posted a video saying that he does not like armets for jousting because the visor can be pushed down, widening the vision slit until splinters can enter. He demonstrated this on an armet.

For sure armets with wrappers are field helmets and will never be as safe as a purposebuilt jousting helmet. But aren't armet visors usually pivoted at the sides and resting on the outside of the cheek pieces in front? It should not be possible to push the armet visor down any more than you can push a two-hinge bascinet visor down. Does his armet just have a design quirk, or am I misunderstanding something?

Unfortunately, the video is a Facebook video so I can't link it. Edit: try https://www.facebook.com/arne.koets/vid ... 9065799761

[Indianer]

Can u take a screenshot of the armet in a telltale frame? Windows has a "Snipping tool" built in for taking screens.

EDIT: Theoretically, if there was a free scape between the Cheek plates/Skull cap overlap and the Visor arms, as of too much dishing in the arms, said arms could, with enough force, be stretched so the entire visor can be pulled down. But how would that happen in jousting? Unless the lance strikes the helmet right on the beak.

Other than that it would require the cheek plates to overlap with play in the bolt, or the visor not tight-fitted against the keel that overlap forms.

EDIT 2: Sean, the link down below works.

[Sean M]

I added a link, but because its a blurry Facebook video you can't see much. There seems to be some back and forth about whether this particular armet is a good replica.

[Mac]

The visor of an armet rests on the cheek pieces. That is what gives it its "stop". The problem is that those cheek pieces can be forced to overlap further by the pressure of the visor. Thus, it is not really secure.

We see this in extant helmets where the cheeks have been deformed, or for some reason do not lock together properly. These helmets exhibit a very "open" sight.

Mac

[Gustovic]

Armets were used a lot, a lot, in jousting in Italy. With or without wrappers. In joust of war and joust of peace.

Lots of reproductions don't have the same thickness in the visor, which would make it way less elastic, and have incorrect, too small or absent rolls at the vision slit, making the elastic problem even worse.

Well fitted wrappers will also hel prevent the visor opening down even more, but yes, half visors are not as solid as full visors. This applies to sallets as well, which we know where also used in jousting.

[Sean M]

Armets were used a lot, a lot, in jousting in Italy. With or without wrappers. In joust of war and joust of peace.

Although lots of people did arms or went to war with open faced helmets, so their idea of appropriate safety was not always ours!

It would be interesting to have a study of the armet in the early 15th century. They were really popular with a full harness in Italy, sometimes worn in France, where else? Do any have mechanisms so the cheeks can't be pushed too close together?