Mail - tailoring based on a new (to me) example

[wcallen]

It has been a while, so I guess I should put something out here.
I recently purchased a new (to me) shirt of mail. People who know better than I have helped me to date it to the 15th c.
It includes a little crotch flap.
I have marked the main body of the piece to show how it was tailored to actually fit a human body (something that is often skipped in modern shirts).
Here is a picture of the new shirt along with another one. It shows the tailoring in the back of the two shirts:

The new shirt is on the right. We can see that it tapers out at the shoulders to allow room at the shoulder blades, then back in at the waist, and finally back out so that the flap can fit to the buttocks.

This is the page describing the new shirt. It includes images of the rings close up and shows the additional tailoring in the chest:
https://european-armour.com/M-18.html

Comments welcome.

Wade

[Indianer]

Thanks for sharing Wade. Really makes the tailoring visible. And those rings...I'm a sucker for these water sheds. Every single ring a work of art on it's own!

[Keegan Ingrassia]

Interesting to see a brayette without the front triangle/pouch! Based on the description on your site, you would surmise this was an intentional design, and not a later-life removal?

[wcallen]

Interesting to see a brayette without the front triangle/pouch! Based on the description on your site, you would surmise this was an intentional design, and not a later-life removal?

When I was looking at it for purchase I assumed that it had lost a front triangle.
It may have.
But... there is at least one more like this, and when I pull the thing up and connect it to the little notch in front the geometry works. I end up with a bottom edge that makes sense. If there were another triangle, the front edge of the "skirt" would be really, really short.
So, I can't prove anything for sure, but it feels like it might just have worked this way originally. I really need to work out the right size person to use as a guinea pig to see it live.

Wade

[Sean M]

How much does this shirt weigh in its current state. Seems on the light side? Edit: ahah, the catalogue says 7.2 kg / 15.8 lbs which is just what I would expect for a light mail shirt with full sleeves.

When I was looking at it for purchase I assumed that it had lost a front triangle.
It may have.
But... there is at least one more like this, and when I pull the thing up and connect it to the little notch in front the geometry works. I end up with a bottom edge that makes sense. If there were another triangle, the front edge of the "skirt" would be really, really short.
So, I can't prove anything for sure, but it feels like it might just have worked this way originally. I really need to work out the right size person to use as a guinea pig to see it live.

Wade

Regarding the geometry, the ancient Egyptian loincloths are an equilateral triangle with the unequal side across the butt and the two equal sides pulled between the legs and tucked under the waistbelt of the loincloth. I have not made a few yet (needs some opaque linen) but its similar.

[wcallen]

The torso form on which I have the thing hung at the moment (only one I have that works for this shirt at all) extends a little to far in the center back and center front to allow me to really simulate a human crotch. It also has a centrally mounted post support, so that gets in the way too. I have pulled things together as much as I can on the current form and it feels like it should work as-is on the right sized human. This does not include additional tailoring for the front of the crotch, which seems... odd.

The weight seems reasonable for a shirt of this density and without a collar or long skirts. It isn't "light" in a modern sense, but it isn't anywhere near the heaviest either.

Wade