Lucky drawers

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Thu May 09, 2002 3:42 pm

Ok i've seen what looks like boxers made of mail for wearing with certain suits of (i think) 15th C German armour.

Anyone have any documantation or know of any books with pics in them? i might make a set for kingdom A&S.

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Thu May 09, 2002 4:48 pm

Albrecht Du"rer's "Paumgartner Altar" has a picture of a military Saint (St Eustace)wearing a pair - you should be able to get hold of a copy in a decent art book on Du"rer. Additionally, a friend of mine once sent me a picture of a pair from a contemporary source, showing their construction.

Basically, they look like a pair of boxer shorts, but with a big rectangular flap at the front, coming from between the legs and fastened about halfway up, for the obvious purpose. What appears to be a leather waistband with a drawstring.

I'll contact my friend and see if he's still got it.

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Egfroth

"Power; it corrupts! I can FEEL it!!
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

Bob H · Post by **Bob H** » Thu May 09, 2002 9:42 pm

http://www.abcgallery.com/D/durer/durer28.html

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Thu May 09, 2002 11:23 pm

Ok i believe you guys about the pic but i can't see them.

If ya can post the construction pic i'd appreciate it. If there's a bibliographical reference i'd love that too.

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Thu May 09, 2002 11:42 pm

Bob,
That's a great site! It's nice to be able to get stuff like Grunewald's Isenheim online.

http://www.abcgallery.com/G/grunewald/grunewald16.html

Love that detail on the pourpoint, not to mention the scale helmet. (Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread -- but this is a great online resource.)

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Fri May 10, 2002 6:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Murdock:
Ok i believe you guys about the pic but i can't see them.

If ya can post the construction pic i'd appreciate it. If there's a bibliographical reference i'd love that too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't see the shorts, or can't see the picture? If you can see the picture, the shorts are on the guy on the right.

I've emailed my mate who had the construction pics, and I'm waiting on his reply. I'll let you know if he ever writes back (he is, after all one of the Grey Company's infamous "tossers".)

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Egfroth

"Power; it corrupts! I can FEEL it!!
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Fri May 10, 2002 8:04 am

For documentation other than a picture (always strengthens the case). They are mentioned as an item of necessary equipment for certain members of a lance in the 1473 ordinance of St. Maximin de Treves of Charles the Bold.

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Bob R.

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Fri May 10, 2002 10:25 am

Murdock

Medieval Military Costume has a modern painting of it in the 15th century section. I ordered the book the other day, I'll scan the pic for you I get it and tell you what the book has to say about it. The same section also has armoring doublets with chain sewn on like a vest cover the under arm and the joint at the elbow. Making these 2 items is my next project myself so I will be well covered in combat.

Flonzy

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Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Fri May 10, 2002 2:13 pm

I can see the pic but the shorts just look like gray shorts.

Chef is there a place either on the web or in a book where i can get that list?

Flonzy
If ya don't mind could ya also post the bibleographc infor so i can use it for A&S documetation.

This was the weirdest piece of armour i could think of that i can actually make so i figuered i'd freak the judges out.

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Sat May 11, 2002 3:12 am

Like I said - go to the local library and get an art book on Durer. It's one of his more popular paintings, so you should be able to get hold of it easily enough. If you're interested in me snail mailing you the other picture, which shows the constructon better, send me your address off-list, and I'll be happy to oblige.

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Egfroth

"Power; it corrupts! I can FEEL it!!
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Sat May 11, 2002 8:44 am

Hi Murdock,

The easiest book to locate it in is Osprey's "Armies of Medieval Burgundy". It's also listed in Vaughans "Charles the Bold (Longmans 1974?), and in a book covering French history listing every ordinance Charles ever wrote in the original French that someone was kind enough to photocopy for me. Osprey is the easiest to find, and it is an accurate translation.

Hope this helps.

In Postscript, Erik Schmidt thinks there may be something funkey with one of those extant pairs - like it has been tampered with after it's working life, or cobbled together not too long ago in the scheme of things.

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Bob R.

^ · Post by ^ » Sat May 11, 2002 9:38 pm

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Sat May 11, 2002 9:50 pm

Hi Brent,

I don't know for a fact. Funny you should ask, as I believe you are the fellow who found them for me, and mailed them to me. I'll try to find out when I gat back to the house.

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Bob R.

^ · Post by ^ » Sun May 12, 2002 12:09 am

ironmongermisc · Post by **ironmongermisc** » Sun May 12, 2002 6:56 am

Chainmaille undies,, talk about chafing,,,,

I have lucky drawers, I use them when racing,, they're the ones with the skidmarks,,

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Mon May 13, 2002 6:57 am

Hey, here's the picture - at http://www.geocities.com/egfrothos/MailJocks.html?1021290996640

Enjoy!

Christian de Westborn · Tue May 14, 2002 4:50 pm

Are these mail shorts particular to German armor/German combatants or are they a standard piece of 15th C. armor-wear?

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Long live the Prince and Princess of Cynagua!

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue May 14, 2002 6:32 pm

They are commonplace to North West Europe through the last half of the 15th century.

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Bob R.

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Tue May 14, 2002 8:07 pm

Looks like a pair of pube-pullers to me!

Raymund · Post by **Raymund** » Tue May 14, 2002 11:45 pm

There is a pair at the Wallace collection too.

/R

Will Knight · Post by **Will Knight** » Fri May 17, 2002 7:16 pm

How hard would these sort of shorts be to make? I've been toying with the idea of making some, so how much maille expieiance would you recomened before I start them? I wouldn't try for a while, since I'm just really getting started in maille, but maybe some time later...
-Will