What about LEATHER armor?

Abaddon · Post by **Abaddon** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 6:41 pm

I have heard people's opinions again and again on the evil use of plastic and the virtues of plate....but how does everyone feel on the subject of leather armor?
I ask because, I personally, have a hardened leather breast-and-back that I am quite fond of. I had thought to start fighting in it, as it is very light and very nice looking as well. But how much heat am I going to take for not having a completely steel plate-and-mail kit?
I put this kit together with much thought as to its overall appearance and functionality.
It has the shape of authenticity and wears well, but I doubt if there was ever such a thing as a leather peascod breatsplate.
Yet much of my armor is leather also...cuisses, greaves, portions of my vambraces and rarebraces...
These peices are all black in color and match each other quite well, even though they have been constructed by, or procured from, different sources.
How then, should I worry?
Is it safe to assume that someone will take exception to this? It is not that the whole kit is leather. My pauldrons, knees, elbows, sabatons, gorget, coif, mantle and helm, are of course, all steel.

[This message has been edited by Abaddon (edited 06-17-2002).]

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 7:36 pm

No problem here.

Tom Knighton · Post by **Tom Knighton** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 7:51 pm

Leather armor won't get the reaction that plastic will. The main reason is that leather is a period material. We KNOW that they had it and used it. If you get anyone questioning the authenticity of the harness you have, it would be more a matter of the style (such as the breastplate shape and such). In all honesty though, the people who will question that would also question a harness in steel that they don't recognize. You won't have to worry about anyone sweating on the materials unlike plastic armor.

But there are jerks everywhere.

Bran (part-time jerk

)

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 8:44 pm

Brqan implied that anyone that questioned leather armor is a jerk... well, I have been called such many times, and doubtless will be again.

Making armor of leather in places where medieval people used leather or in circumstances where it is adequately covered (to include shape: it's not enough to cover something, it must be *hidden*) is just fine; admirable, even.

To make armor that *wasn't* made of leather out of leather, however, is just not right. It's every bit as bad as plastic. For example, I know a man who's very proud of the fact that he makes articulaed coudes of leather... Wrong! I'm forced to say the same about your peascod breastplate: I know of no examples of that sort of thing happening in period, and I highly doubt it was done. Yes, some body armor was made of leather very early on (hence the term "cuirass"), but not by the time of the peascod breastplate.

------------------
Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

Tom Knighton · Post by **Tom Knighton** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 9:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by SyrRhys:
Brqan implied that anyone that questioned leather armor is a jerk... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rhys,

All I was saying is the material, BY ITSELF wouldn't be a problem. I also stated that anyone who would say anything about it would do so because the style of armor wouldn't have been made of leather (or at least intended to). I was referring to folks who blast people for not being in steel, since alternative existed in period, with my jerk comment.

What you have said is very true. However, this is not the same as exposed plastic, in my mind. Leather is a period material where plastic is not. If weight is a factor for a fighter, leather can be an option. I personally believe that people should make an effort to put together an authentic harness for thier persona (or field persona if they have one) and use period materials if at all possible.

Sorry if you felt I was refering to you as a jerk. I certianly wouldn't do that.......right now

Bran

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bran Mac Scandlan:
 Rhys,

All I was saying is the material, BY ITSELF wouldn't be a problem. I also stated that anyone who would say anything about it would do so because the style of armor wouldn't have been made of leather (or at least intended to). I was referring to folks who blast people for not being in steel, since alternative existed in period, with my jerk comment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then please accept my apology for misinterpreting what you said.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:40 pm

Leather is fine by me.

It's about all i can make by myself and have it not look like crap.

It's sometimes weird to see stuff like a burgundian gothic leather suit but her they did make behord armour out of leather and from what little i know of that it was supposed to look like metal armour.

Joe Skeesick · Post by **Joe Skeesick** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 7:44 am

Leather is fine as a material. However, I will state that most all the leather armour I see is crap (in a histoical/authentic sense). Its not as obvious as plastic of course but its hardly ever done well. I never see tooling of any sort (outside of some sort of celtic knotwork or perhaps a klingon symbol) decorating the armour. Its usually just slabs of leather with a strap attached. It would be nice to see some really well done leather armour as it would of been used in period instead of used as a substitute for plate.

I'd still MUCH rather see it than plastic mind you. It just seems to be the most unrepresented styles of armour in the lists. I was planning a project to do just that some months ago but have since been distracted by other things. I know Russ is doing some research to that end as well but I don't know how far he has gotten with things yet. I'm taking a class soon on period leather hardening techniques. Perhaps I will resurect the project at that point (assuming my leather working skills improve a bit).

As for your specific question Abaddon, I don't believe you'll hear a discouraging word on your choice of materials and if done well will probably recieve a number of compliements. By the sounds of your kit you have a really good feild presence. I certainly woudn't say anything against it if I saw you. I would however if asked suggest that you do what research you can to find iconographic evidence of the armour type your trying to create and use the appropriate materials for the job, and if leather is it, render it so that it looks the part (ie, proper tooling and shapes).

Please note, I get compliments all the time on my kit. Lots of "wows" but I am FAR from the mark and if I was to ask someone that knew my period and place they could suggest a couple pages worth of changes. Enjoy what you've got and keep improving it.

J

ironmongermisc · Post by **ironmongermisc** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 8:21 am

Being called the "Carrion Laurel" and having a very very Early Period persona I can say this w ease,,

Modern plastic has replaced what many people used leather for in life..

(I am NOT sayind plastic is ok,,)

Leather was used for a gazillion things,, clothes, hinges, tents, binding materials, cups etc and so on.

As for armor in any period, it would be used as it was a cheap common substance, and as to what style, who knows as it was common for the 'peasants' to copy the upper crust types as best they could with what they had,,

In gard or clothing, if you want to know what the poor or peasnt working types wore in most periods, go back two generations to what the rich wore, as they would evolve fashion further and the poor would slowly get access to the materials as it was not the rage or fad anymore,,

Leather is not cheap anymore, and not as common, so it is not seen as often as other materials.

Constancius · Post by **Constancius** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 2:08 am

A vast majority of my armour is leather. I made just about every piece of it myself. I consider leather a fall back material. If you can't afford to purchase the lovely breastplate that you want, or even it's dull cousin, then get some leather and make some armour that will suit you and/or your persona and use it until you can afford what you want.
Depending upon your persona, leather would have been the material that if not most, all armour was made of.
I mainly use leather because of the ease of maintence, and how easily it can be made into armour. I don't tool it because I don;t have the feintest idea how to go aout it. I think that what I have that is exposed looks pretty decent the way it is. But, that's also my personal view point.
I like leather. It works great for armour, and looks good on the field as well. Sometimes even better than plate.

------------------
Constancius of Lincolnshire

animis corporibusque

Winterfell · Post by **Winterfell** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:00 am

At Ponte Alto there were a couple of folks in leather scale mail. It was rather interesting to look at but historically questionable for me. (Could be wrong, known to be on occasions) Next chance I get I am going to start taking pics of armour kits I see on SCA fields. I come across some great shots from time to time.

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"As long as there are fanatics there will always be heretics

Tim Finkas · Post by **Tim Finkas** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:17 am

I have seen references to tournament armour where cuir bolli is substituted (in some places) for plate iron defenses. Your "partial plate" armour may be more authentic than you think.

Asbjorn Johansen · Post by **Asbjorn Johansen** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 2:26 pm

The essential problem with leather is its relative (to metal armour anyway) scarcity of artifacts. Leather rots, and may have been considered so base that no effort was made to preserve it as was done with some of the exceptional steel armour. We need to be careful in its use, and ideally not try to step beyond the historical record in our portrayals (this from a guy who still hasn't gotten rid of his completely non historic leather chest protection, but I'm working on it), while desperately hoping someone stumbles on some finds of leather armour that are in suitable shape to study.

Asbjorn