Oak Medieval Furniture - 6 Board Chest

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Thu Aug 08, 2002 11:14 pm

Viking Rowing Bench/Chest.
This chest is constructed of one inch thick
unplaned white oak planks. It is roughly 18" tall,
40" long and 12" deep. The feet are "splayed"
out, the bottom being an 1 1/2" wider at the
bottom than the top.
The bottom sits in a dado joint cut in both ends,
the front and the back pieces. It also has a
tendon that goes through a mortise in both ends,
as well as being doweled. The front and back sit
on lap joints cut into the ends.

[img]http://monsieurgeoffrey.faithweb.com/images/chestfront.jpg[/img]

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Virtus vincit invidiam
"Virtue overcometh envy"

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Thu Aug 08, 2002 11:18 pm

This Viking rowing bench I based off of the Mastermyr Tool Chest:

http://www.pipcom.com/wareham_forge/mbxpl.jpg

[img]http://monsieurgeoffrey.faithweb.com/images/chestfrontopenlid.jpg[/img]

The straps are red deer.

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Thu Aug 08, 2002 11:22 pm

[img]http://monsieurgeoffrey.faithweb.com/images/chestsideopen.jpg[/img]

Iron Hinges and Straps.
I cut the hinges and straps out of 16 guage mild
steel, then pounded them on a rough anvil. I used
a wire wheel to clean the pieces, sanded the
edges, drilled the holes on a drill press, then
shaped the metal over an anvil or a vise. The hinge
pins were cut from iron rod, then peened over on
both ends. Once the pieces were shaped, I sprayed
them with WD40 and tossed them into a fire made
from the oak scraps. After a while, I tossed a
bucket of water over the fire, and wiped them
off. I nailed them onto the chest before I did the
final coat of beeswax/boiled linseed oil. The
nails are iron rivets shaped on a grinder.

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Thu Aug 08, 2002 11:25 pm

[img]http://monsieurgeoffrey.faithweb.com/images/chestbackopened.jpg[/img]

Wood Finish
I used a commercial stain, then followed with two applications of boiled linseed oil.
Then, in a double pan boiler, I melted beeswax into boiled linseed oil. I use
lemon oil to clean it.

corbin skarlocke · Post by **corbin skarlocke** » Fri Aug 09, 2002 7:21 pm

Very nice!
Cs

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"This above all else; to thine own self be true."

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 5:01 pm

[img]http://monsieurgeoffrey.faithweb.com/images/benchdado.jpg[/img]

The dado is run end-to-end on the front and back.

Carving Dado Joints
While far easier with a tablesaw or a router bench, dados can still be cut with chisels in wood as hard as oak with little difficulty.
Use a hand-held circular saw to define the areas, and score it a few times if it is more than a half inch. The blade being
previously measured to proper depth allows an easy chore with a sharp chisel and mallet.

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 5:03 pm

[img]http://monsieurgeoffrey.faithweb.com/images/chestinprogress.jpg[/img]

Partially Constructed Bench & Finished Product
The bottom is seated in the dado. The end is cut to size, but the mortise and dado
have yet to be cut.

galenow · Post by **galenow** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 5:07 pm

great job, it really rounds out the total look that you do!
cheers
galenow

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 11:13 am

This damn Freeservers account - I set it up specifically to host photos. Now they are dogging me to send them money to keep doing it. Fat chance.
Anyway, if you get the unavailable for hosting message you can either right click on it, hit properties, copy the address, paste it on your address bar, hit go, and when the photo appears, hit back and it will show up on this thread. Or you can go to:

http://monsieurgeoffrey.faithweb.com/catalog.html

And see them for yourself on the actual page.
Sorry for the #*@!?&!

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 10:40 am

Here is a photo of the finished boards showing the cuts. The end piece has a lap joint on the side to "carry" the front and back, a dado and a mortise to seat the bottom, shown with tendon. The sides have a dado for the bottom, plus are cut at an angle for the "splayed" look. The bottom and the lap joints will be held with dowels.

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:30 pm

(Response to an e-mail):
Actually, I was hoping for a discussion on the A.A. about the feasibility of making these chests available for sale. I have made many tables & benches for SCA folks over the years out of white pine. I enjoy working with hardwoods, though, but there is a price difference.
I have only a framing carpenters hand tools, no table saw or radial arm saw, so production is a little higher, although the end result "looks" handmade. The price of white oak lumber is about $100.00 for the finished chest. The second one will have a two inch thick lid hollowed on the inside and rounded on the outside. This one is a tad larger and will have $150.00 worth of oak.
I hand made all of the hardware, but I can buy Indian made hardware done the same way (but a little nicer than mine) for about $50.00 per chest.
Labour, however, is considerable. I made the first one for Regia and so didn't mind the hand-chiseled dados, but I forgot to factor in the dado depth on the ends and wound up with a chest less than an inch to small for my sword, so I made the second the same way two inches longer. The third chest will be huge and will also have a curved top.
I'm looking at $350.00, $450.00 and $500.00 for these three, which I would suspect is out of the average SCA'ers range for camping. Given the fact these would normally be painted instead of stained, I could do them in 1 1/2" thick yellow pine for around $150.00 "I think". I may attempt one over Labor Day and time myself.
I was thinking of carrying a table, two types of benches and 'X' chairs as well, although I haven't attempted the chairs yet. I will probably offer slat beds too.
I like working with oak, ash and white pine, although yellow pine is stronger. I will not be offering plywood as a choice.

I think I'll post this response on the thread. Please feel free to suggest what you would like and how much you are willing to pay for various details such as wood types, finishes and hardware.

Jef Fulton

Constancius · Post by **Constancius** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 12:43 am

Bascot,
Beautiful work. Your talent for woodworking and your joy in making those chests truly shines through.

Oak is really expensive. Have you checked on the price for poplar? I made a toy chest for my son out of poplar and it stands up to the abuse rather well. It seems to have the workability of a soft wood, but has the stregnth of a hardwood. The only thing that might be a problem with useing it might be with authenticity. I'm not sure whether or not poplar trees are or were native in Europe. Just an idea. On any account I'm sure it's cheaper than oak.

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Constancius of Lincolnshire

animis corporibusque

Templar Bob/De Tyre · Post by **Templar Bob/De Tyre** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:23 pm

To all:

I think what Bascot is asking is what type of wood/designs would you be willing to pay for. The expensive hardwoods are going to cost a lot, and (frankly) should be expensive. If you want something that you can take camping to a re-enactment or an SCA event, why not ask him how much it would cost in a pine or lesser grade wood?

I know what Bascot pays for the white oak---and it ain't cheap. In light of the current economy, I don't think that many of us can afford even the stuff made of Red Oak, unless it's for someone of something special (anniversary or wedding gift). I do believe that Bascot will be happy to make similar items in pine for everyday use.

Some concerns Bascot has is this:

1. Making the items true to period design.

2. Making them sturdy for those of us "big boys" An oak bench can withstand someone verging on 330+ pounds. Pine will need to be adapted accordingly.

3. Utilizing inexpensive but "close enough" hardware to make it worth mass-producing these items. All of his stuff (including locks and hinges) are currently hand made.

4. Types of finish. Why would you want a table or bench made of white oak if you're only going to cover it with polychromatic milk-paint---what's the point?

Bottom line is this: What are you willing to pay for?

I own a table and bench set made by Bascot out of yellow pine. He built it for us as a gift, but I believe that it would be worth $350-$450 for the set---simply because of the workmanship and attention to detail. Are you willing to pay as much? I would be.

------------------
Robert Coleman, Jr.

The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice
Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

Remember: In Living History/Reinactment, Real Life is the Great Leveler of Man.

[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 08-27-2002).]

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 8:42 pm

Templar Bob - Thanks for the compliment! BTW, yours is white pine, not yellow, and I think I could do a set unfinished like yours for $225.00, or $250.00 with a boiled linseed/beeswax finish and any Miniwax type stain. (I may start experimenting with iron & vinegar for a period stain.) It would be a little more for milkpaint/boiled linseed/beeswax like the Viking tent poles.
My additional questions:
39" (2 seater) or 24" (1 seater) on the chests?
Paint (period) or stain (modern tastes) as medievals were constantly surrounded with wood, so they painted things brightly. We are surrounded by coloured plastic, hence prefer beautiful grain. Picking grain patterns takes time & wastes lumber.
What about simple painted patterns? (Crosses, SCA Kingdom heraldry or other devices.) This would have to be generic, as I am no artist, and don't intend to do custom orders, just sell stock.
Chairs - how many people actually have authentic medieval-styled chairs? What would be better, the folding X chairs with leather seats & backs, or solid chairs? Is there any interest in "fixed" tables and chairs (indoor furniture) or are break-downs what every is looking for?
How much actual carving are people willing to pay for? Copies of the ship beds, or just something simple at a far cheaper cost? (Not everyone was a Queen buried with servants, etc...)
I appreciate all opinions and suggestions while I am still making prototypes and haven't invested very much.

Templar Bob/De Tyre · Tue Aug 27, 2002 10:54 pm

Bascot:

I can think of several suggestions---

 1. The slat bed you have (made of pine).
2. Seat chests (both small and large).
3. The clothing rack (modified with "Gothic" cuts).

4. Either "X" chairs or stools.

------------------
Robert Coleman, Jr.

The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice
Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

Remember: In Living History/Reinactment, Real Life is the Great Leveler of Man.

Constancius · Post by **Constancius** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 12:55 am

T-Bob:
I understan where you are coming from. I was merely making a suggestion, not bashing Bascot in any way shape or form. I do have the schooling to do that kind of woodwork, but not the talent or time to attempt it. Knowing how expensive that hard woods are, I felt compelled to suggest a wood type that both is just as strong, and looks IMHO just as good. Yes if I had the money I would mose certianly pay that much for a chest made out of either wood. Oak or Poplar. The main difference is that Poplar is lighter. Again to clarify, it was merely a suggestion.

Bascot:
Your work is awsome keep it up. I'll have to look you up when I have the money for one of your chests. Beautiful work.

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Constancius of Lincolnshire

animis corporibusque

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 8:02 am

My only problem with poplar is I can only get it in 3/4" thickness, which only leaves 3/8" inside a dado or complex lap joint. Furniture that I can "guarantee" against breakage should be 1" for oak, and larger for softer woods, which is why I suggested 1 1/2" yellow pine. I can also only get smaller widths, where 12" is pretty much the minimum to keep from having to glue and dowel, which adds another step, more time, and hence, a higher price.

Templar Bob/De Tyre · Post by **Templar Bob/De Tyre** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 8:54 am

Constancius:

No flame intended--merely pointing out that Bascot's talents would allow him to build in a variety of woods. I was further pointing out certain...practicalities regarding materials and time.

------------------
Robert Coleman, Jr.

The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice
Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

Remember: In Living History/Reinactment, Real Life is the Great Leveler of Man.

LFord · Post by **LFord** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:11 am

Bascot
Have you ever tried to using raw walnuts to make a stain. I did a small test batch two years ago and it came out a great deep brown. That batch was done by soaking the raw walnuts in water. I plan on trying again this year using turpentine as my soaking liquid and later blending that with linseed oil. Since you use the natural finishes like I do, I was wondering what you thought of the idea.

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KILT: Slang term used to refer to the death of an individual.
(I done kilt him.)
NOT a garment worn by a 13th century Scot

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 12:47 pm

Actually, I found a grove of walnuts last weekend, but they were still too green. I intend to experiment with staining wood, although I was going to dye some linen as well.
Do you grind up the hulls or leave them whole? Do you only use the black rotten ones, or any that fall "ripe"?

Templar Bob/De Tyre · Post by **Templar Bob/De Tyre** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:02 pm

ADDENDUM:

Just thought up some more items that would probably be useful:

 1. Writing desks.
2. Chest/coolers (a strictly SCA item).
3. Weapons racks.
4. Footstools
5. Portable spice cabinets.
6. Ambry chests (a sort of screened cabinet).

I'll think up more later.

------------------
Robert Coleman, Jr.

The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice
Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

Remember: In Living History/Reinactment, Real Life is the Great Leveler of Man.

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 5:36 pm

Portable spice cabinets.

One of the ladies in our 15th C. group has one of these in her supply tent that wasn't very period in construction (wood screws, plywood and galv. hinges & latches), but it was very effective. The doors opened out and had small shelves in them for spices, with other foodstuffs in the cabinet proper. The whole thing was on legs to keep out critters, and this space could be utilized for cookware. I was considering something similar using Diehl's wine cabinet as a model.

Constancius · Post by **Constancius** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:57 pm

T-Bob: No problem at all.

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Constancius of Lincolnshire

animis corporibusque

LFord · Post by **LFord** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 7:07 am

Bascot
The last batch I knocked what I could off the tree and kinda let them rot on their own in water. I left them whole, but I plan on cutting them in half this year.
A word of warning to anyone who tries this, WEAR RUBBER GLOVES. The stain from raw walnuts is without a doubt the most difficult thing I have ever tried to remove from my hands. I worked for two years in a paint factory using industrial tints and not one of them stained my hands like the walnuts did.

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KILT: Slang term used to refer to the death of an individual.
(I done kilt him.)
NOT a garment worn by a 13th century Scot

Torvald · Post by **Torvald** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:50 am

3 maybe 4 things

First I think you would be best off offering a basic bottom level items and price with the note that better cost more. I think most people understand that and as long as you have a few pics of what you top of the line stuff looks like they should be able to work with you.

BTW I like the table and 6 board chest, looks good

As for the Walnut stain I would think crushing them would allow more of the oils to leach out and you would get a darker richer stain than from a whole nut.

And I would like to ask you wood workers to stop by the forums at www.legiodraconis.com and share some of what you have found works. We have just started a wood and metal working forum and could use some good topics to get it moving

Guess it's only 3 as Ican't remember what the other thing was.

Torvald

Templar Bob/De Tyre · Post by **Templar Bob/De Tyre** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:53 am

Bascot:

Since Freeservers are being jerks, perhaps you could contact JT about having your stuff shown on home@Armourarchive.com?

------------------
Robert Coleman, Jr.

The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice
Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

Remember: In Living History/Reinactment, Real Life is the Great Leveler of Man.

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 6:46 pm

Well I attempted a yellow pine chest over the weekend & timed myself to see how long it took. The results are not promising.
Hinges -$10.00
lumber - $27.00 instead of $100.00 + for oak.
lay-out and cutting all pieces - 1 hr.
hand cutting and chiseling all dados - 3 hrs.
sand, assemble, glue, dowels, etc -1 1/2 hr.
stain - 45 min.
linseed oil - 2 hrs.
hasp & corners 1 hr.
total labour - about 8 hrs. @ $25.00 per hr. $200.00
with materials - $275.00 to $300.00
While there is a savings of $70.00 on materials, the 1 1/2" thick pine is as difficult to work as 3/4" oak or ash.
I could save about an hour by assembly line.
I could save about 2 1/2 hrs. by cutting the dados with a table or radial arm saw, plus save another 1/2 hr. on assembly by having uniform pieces.
That means the cheapest I could do pine for is $200.00 a chest, compared to $300.00 for oak. (Providing I purchase a saw.)
On the plus side, a circus elephant could stand on this thing it's so sturdy, so warranty breakage would not be a problem!