Arming doublet help

Annabella · Post by **Annabella** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 5:47 pm

I'm making an arming doublet for Jake/Aaron's Landsknecht persona, and I have no idea where to start. I want it to be combat-safe, but also fairly historically accurate. I found a gambeson pattern in the Issue #32 of this year of Renaissance magazine that I thought I might be able to use as a general guideline. Other than that, though, I don't know what I'm doing. Any suggestions?

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:55 am

Toss the gambeson pattern & use a doublet pattern.

An arming doublet looks just like a regular period doublet, but is made of stronger stuff, even padded a tad through the shoulders. It should be tight through the waist & arms, a tad looser through the chest. I have pics at home I can link ya to later.

general:
http://www.wolfeargent.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000094

Closures:
http://www.wolfeargent.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000159

Greylond · Post by **Greylond** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:35 pm

In a similar vein, can anyone suggest a source for the proper padding? I know one should be using wool or cotton, but all I can find is a 80% cotton /20% poly batting at my local Jo-Anns.

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:05 pm

Greylond

I have way too much raw cotton. If you want I could sell you some. I could send you about 5 pounds of it for $20.

I found it at a distributor for furnature makers.

Flonzy

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Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy

Gwyneth · Post by **Gwyneth** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:10 pm

Greylond -

There is a 100% cotton batting available - just watch the content labels before you buy. Last time I saw this, it was at Hobby Lobby or JoAnn's. You might also check with your local quilting store; they should have the 100% cotton batting. They also should be able to sell you 100% wool batting.

For free stuff, check with your local cooperative extension service for 4-H kids who are raising sheep. They may give you the wool for free when they shear - of course you will have to wash and card it yourself. For cotton, go on down to the local gin and see if they will let you pick up waste cotton off the ground. Again, you may have to wash it and pick all the seeds out of it, but can't beat the price!

Gwyneth

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:00 pm

The cotton batting is often 87.5% cotton and 12.5% poly?something binder. It keeps it from drifting very much, and I don't think you'll really notice it. I made a hood with it (one layer) and an inner and outer shell of 55%linen 45% cotton (it was under $2/yd), and I really like it. I haven't had any sweat in my eyes since I made it.

Gwyneth · Post by **Gwyneth** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:44 pm

A further note on batting - you want the kind that says "needle punched" - that means that the fiber layers of the batting are held together by punching the layers together, rather than binding them in some way with another fiber. Most of the poly/cotton or poly battings are *not* needle punched.

I have seen a chart somewhere that has all the different kinds of batting, their fiber content, how close to quilt each, and various other information. I'll see if I can dig it up for you. A basic rule of thumb is that a 100% cotton or wool inner layer will need to be quilted more closely than a polyester layer. This is simply because the fibers are shorter and will tend to mat up when you wash it if the quilting is not close enough. From my memory, if you are quilting with 100% cotton batting (raw or commercial), then you should have your quilting lines no more than 2 inches apart.

Again, I'll try to dig up more info if you are interested.

Gwyneth

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:50 am

The stuff I mentioned is available at Walmart, and is needlepunched. You can sew 12" squares w/o support.

Reinhard · Post by **Reinhard** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:18 am

A good woollen army blanket is good padding, my arming doublet is almost bullet proof.
For landesknecht, I assume he's using something similiar to Almain Rivet or Maximillian?
If so, the images I've seen show vertical row stitched doublets in an offwhite, grey or red. The rows appear about a palm's width, most I've seen are parallel but some radiate out from the belt. Earlier versions, out of date but still wearable, have the big late 1400s puffy shoulders that I really like for settling the spaulders/pauldrons on.

Edric · Post by **Edric** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:40 am

You can get pretty good sized wool blankets pretty cheap from www.sportsmansguide.com.

That being said, I think a wool blanket is more padding than you need for an arming doublet.

If you want to do it the right way, I would recommend 3 fabrics.

A shell of heavy-medium linen or hemp. Colored or jaquards are nice for this. Next I would recommend 2 layers of as heavy linen or hemp as you can find. Doesn't matter what it looks like, it will be inside. Then a lining of fine linen or silk.

If you must have padding, add a single layer of the Warm n Natural or White n Natural cotton batting. This is the needled batting the others were refering to. I would recommend getting it from Jo Ann's. They frequently have it on sale for 50% off. If it is not on sale, you can sign up for their circular and you will get a 50% off coupon for a single cut of fabric. Not to mention it is the "double wide" variety. I get all of my batting this way. In fact, I generally by an entire roll when they have it 50% off.

I cannot comment on the construction since Landsknecht is not my forte.

------------------
--Edric de Aldebury--
edric@edricsrose.com
http://www.edricsrose.com

Flos est puellarum, quam diligio, et rosa rosarum, quam sepe video.
"My love is a flower among virgins, and a rose among roses"

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:09 am

Personally I find that raw cotton gives a much better effect that cotton batting, plus it was used in period.

Flonzy

------------------
Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:23 am

Flonz, could you detail how it "gives a better effect," please? What's it do for us that needled batting won't?

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:35 am

I will see if I can tell you the difference and make sense.

OK I feel raw cotton compresses better than batting when you sew it down. Makes the garment nice and stiff compared to the batting. It is denser feeling and more flexible.

One down side is sometimes it is so dense that it is hard to pass a needle through it. It also HAS to be hand quilted. I will take pictures of the pourpoint I am working on right now tonight and maybe you will see a difference but I am not sure you can tell from a picture.

One other observation I have is that garments with batting in them generate heat just sitting and the raw cotton does not.

Flonzy

------------------
Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy

Annabella · Post by **Annabella** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:02 pm

Thanks for all the help! Looks like I'll have my work cut out for me this winter break. Hopefully I won't screw it up too much.

Greylond · Post by **Greylond** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:33 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by flonzy:
I have way too much raw cotton. If you want I could sell you some. I could send you about 5 pounds of it for $20.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Woo, thanks Flonzy! I'll fire off an email to you.