Greetings armour archiveans!
I've been meaning for a long while to build myself some proper 14th century body armour, and now that school is almost out I see my chance.
Now, from what I have seen, a lot of mid 14th century brasses and effigies show a tapered hourglass shaped body under the tightly fitting surcoat. My question is this: Are they supposed to be wearing a breast plates or a CoP? If it is in fact a CoP, how does one achieve this effect? I ask because most of the CoP I have seen or fought in lacked a waistline (more poncho shaped). Thanks in advance.
Question about mid 14th Century Body Armour
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Chuck Davis
- Archive Member
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Hi Ranulf,
That depends on when your looking in the 14th century. If you want that classic hourglass shape, I'd say that you want a breastplate under the surcoat. From the beginning until around 1350, you could be wearing a coat of plates. Then the transistion to a breastplate occures until the end of the century. Of course they were probably using both during the 3rd quarter of the century. [1350-1375]
-Cad
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-Chuck
aka Cadwallon y' Rhudd
That depends on when your looking in the 14th century. If you want that classic hourglass shape, I'd say that you want a breastplate under the surcoat. From the beginning until around 1350, you could be wearing a coat of plates. Then the transistion to a breastplate occures until the end of the century. Of course they were probably using both during the 3rd quarter of the century. [1350-1375]
-Cad
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-Chuck
aka Cadwallon y' Rhudd
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ranulf:
<B>Greetings armour archiveans!
Now, from what I have seen, a lot of mid 14th century brasses and effigies show a tapered hourglass shaped body under the tightly fitting surcoat. My question is this: Are they supposed to be wearing a breast plates or a CoP? If it is in fact a CoP, how does one achieve this effect? I ask because most of the CoP I have seen or fought in lacked a waistline (more poncho shaped). Thanks in advance.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I will undoubtedly be corrected
but I was under the impression that there was a breastplate underneath that tightly fitting surcoat. That look is acheived without the armour by putting a small rectangular pillow on your chest under the jacket
Fritz
<B>Greetings armour archiveans!
Now, from what I have seen, a lot of mid 14th century brasses and effigies show a tapered hourglass shaped body under the tightly fitting surcoat. My question is this: Are they supposed to be wearing a breast plates or a CoP? If it is in fact a CoP, how does one achieve this effect? I ask because most of the CoP I have seen or fought in lacked a waistline (more poncho shaped). Thanks in advance.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I will undoubtedly be corrected
but I was under the impression that there was a breastplate underneath that tightly fitting surcoat. That look is acheived without the armour by putting a small rectangular pillow on your chest under the jacketFritz
15th Century Brigs are wasp waisted but I've seen very little evidence one way or the other on 14th Century Coats 0f Plate. The Wisby diagrams that I've seen don't appear to be wasp-waisted but they belonged to militia infantry. Page 74 AAMK shows several COP with a small amount of narrowing.
The "waist" on armour is not the same as the modern waistline. The medieval waist is at the bottom of the ribs. This allows the body to bend forward. The hourglass sticks out more in the front than on the sides where it would get in the way of the arms.
Lord Theodore of Haddington
Another thing to remember is that effigies may be exagerating the wasp-waisted effect for fashion reasons. I learned in art class (a long time ago) that normal human dimensions are that the body is 7 head heights high. The industry standard for fashion drawings has a ratio of 9 head heights. They even find models that are that proportion when they can. That does not make it the norm. It is also likely that old knights would like to be depicted as young and thin maybe even too thin.
The "waist" on armour is not the same as the modern waistline. The medieval waist is at the bottom of the ribs. This allows the body to bend forward. The hourglass sticks out more in the front than on the sides where it would get in the way of the arms.
Lord Theodore of Haddington
Another thing to remember is that effigies may be exagerating the wasp-waisted effect for fashion reasons. I learned in art class (a long time ago) that normal human dimensions are that the body is 7 head heights high. The industry standard for fashion drawings has a ratio of 9 head heights. They even find models that are that proportion when they can. That does not make it the norm. It is also likely that old knights would like to be depicted as young and thin maybe even too thin.
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jason knochenhauer
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