Here's one for ya

Hun · Post by **Hun** » Fri Oct 12, 2001 9:18 am

Purely Hypothetical,
Anyone ever come across rattan Pata? Got any ideas?(Pata is an Indian gauntlet sword)
The Hun

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Fri Oct 12, 2001 9:32 am

Yup, about twelve years ago. Didn`t like it when I tried it, and it didn`t work well against Me the owner said.
John

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Fri Oct 12, 2001 12:46 pm

I was in a hurry when I wrote the last post, allow Me to go into a bit more detail...The pata(?) this guy had was a full or lmost full length sword atatched to a fixed gauntlet, held by a grip running perpendicular to the blade, and with a steel gutter vambrace that covered the upper arm. Sort of like a long, armored katar(?) I tried it out and found it unwieldy and dificult to control, and dificult to bring many killing shots to bear. Do to the lenght and the handle stup, I found it dificult to bring thrusts in properly as well. The guy who made it tried it out that day and was also disapointed in its performance.
With some tweeking of the design and some practice getting used to the funny particulars of the weapon, it could maybe be a viable toy for SCA combat. We never really pursued it further.
Good luck wit it if you decide to go that way!
John

Norman · Post by **Norman** » Fri Oct 12, 2001 1:13 pm

Just to possibly rain on your parade a bit,

If I remember correctly, the Pata derives from the Katar via a slow increase in hand protection. I believe it is entirely post-period - around 18th century or so.
I think that within period all you have is the basic Katar.

But the only materials I have on this is Stone's Glossary, and we know that he was a pioneer in the field - with all the attendant difficulties that brings.

------------------
Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)

Brodir · Post by **Brodir** » Sat Oct 13, 2001 4:24 am

THere's an An Tirian knight named Aveloc who sometimes fights with a punch-dagger sort of thing. He seems to like it, some folks think it packs too much oomph. Never faced it, so I can't say. Not in my top 500 European tourney weapons though

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Sat Oct 13, 2001 12:12 pm

We tried one for a little while and the bladework was very slow and lacked the maneuverability, speed, and power of a sword. The katar version(small thrusting spike) is highly effective for a spearman in war. Mounted to the left gauntlet it allows you to climb all over incoming shieldmen and "left hook" em to the head. It does develope a lot of force though. My friend got "punch bucklers" outlawed here in Caid because it's effectiveness was shockingly good(and he punched several politicians too many times with it).

A pata is a great looking weapon, that's about it.

Pathfinder · Post by **Pathfinder** » Sat Oct 13, 2001 3:13 pm

I thought it was illegal to have a weapons grip be perpendicular to the blade/shaft?

Norman · Post by **Norman** » Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:56 pm

I don't know if the folks here are using their terminology rightly.

The terms Katar and Pata have nothing to do with weapon size (far as I can remember).

In both cases weapons are possible from dagger length to really long Long Swords.

The difference is the degree of hand coverage.
The Katar just has two metal bars essentially there to hold the handle in place but coincidentally protecting the edges of the hand.
The Pata in its final form is a very deep bell guard (or, if you will, a one-piece gauntlet) - protecting the hand and lower arm.
In between you get weapons with increasing use of extra bars around a Katar grip.
(like the development from a Cross Hilt to an Epee bell guard in European swords)

------------------
Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)