SCA Mace Head problem

Bartok · Post by **Bartok** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 3:51 pm

A friend of mine bought one of those rubber/neoprean/whatever mace heads and an axe head. The axe head is fine but the mace hits too hard for the local marshall's comfort.

It's one of those flanged mace heads where the flanges are an arch of rubber rather than completely solid.

Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone have any suggestions on how to power down the mace before my friend starts his own "adjustments"?
Bartok

Chretien le Meunier · Post by **Chretien le Meunier** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 8:39 pm

Take the mace to another marshal? I am curious how it hits to heavy or hard, I've seen a multitude of different SCA mace head creations and materials- including the type you speak of (perhaps of another manufacture?) and I did'nt see them as any more viscious that any other kind.

But anyway, to maybe help with the problem at hand, you can maybe stick it in boiling water, quenching it, let it cool, repeat, that may soften up its material to a slight degree, if done enough. I realize it will be soft temporarily until it cools, and this is a good fix, if ya wanna keep runnin back to the fire and dip that mace head every minute. But I am guessing my suggestion might soften it on a permanant basis if done enough.

OR, you guy could just go smack the hell outta one another with it, then go ask him to inspect it for society wide combat. If you prefer not to use on anothers nuggets for the task, any random tree, rock or peice of earth will do. Good luck with the arm tiring out though. Not sure if these suggestions will work, but worth a shot.

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The Way is in us all. Only the humble are capable of obtaining it.
Tristan Graethorne/Kumanouchi no Daijiro Tsunemichi-
Shire of Owls Reste, Southern Region,
Great Kingdom of the East

[This message has been edited by Graethorne (edited 01-13-2002).]

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 11:52 pm

take it to the pell.

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:54 am

Is it one of the Keystone Creations? I have heard that they hit a little harder. Perhaps cutting a "window" in the flange would work. If it screws it up, you are out $50 (purchase price?).

sebastian · Post by **sebastian** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:16 am

Does it hit harder than a 7.5 foot polearm swung through a full 90Âº arc?
Some marshals really piss me off with thier definitions of what they think is legal.
If the weapon is constructed by the rules, then I dont see how "It hits to hard." is a valid bounce.

Details? Weight? Length, Rattan thinkness, Rattan flex (if any?) Pommel (if any?) What kind of arc do the flanges have now? (if they are really shallow you might be bottoming out to the rattan. At which point you're swinging a weighted sword.)

My suggestions...
1. Ask the marshal to reinspect the weapon, maybe he was having a bad day and just didn't feel like passing it.

2. Test it. Find a fighter who is skilled with a mace and let him bash on you with it. Start with really light shots and notch up slowly. Then ask him his opinion of how it handles.
Take this info to the marshal. (I know one guy who swore to never make another mace after doing that, his DID hit to hard.)

3. Appeal to the Baronial or Regional Marshal in your area. Failing that, Kingdom, is the next step.

4. With out looking at the weapon I can't suggest how to eliminate the impact, other than saying "counter-balance". (Can you get a Picture of it on line?)

5. Is it neopreen or is it rubber? Both are effected differently by the weather. Was it cold out? Hot? Could that be a factor? (You should also question..WILL it be a factor? A nice solid hit in Dec. might mean "cush" city come June.

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:56 pm

does anyone have a web adress for keystone creations? I would like to check out some of there stuff.
John

Conrad the Mad · Post by **Conrad the Mad** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 1:58 pm

http://home.earthlink.net/~caidannoble/keystone/

Bartok · Post by **Bartok** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:41 am

I'll print out this thread and get feed back from my friend tomorrow. Thanks guys.

ASAIK

It's neoprean.
Practice was in a boiler room so no chance of frozen weapon syndrom

The weapon including head was 24" long.

I didn't get hit with it (too sick to fight), but did hit a shield with it. I was told my swing was slow (thus useless in a fight) but had all the force of a full speed sword blow.
Bartok

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:44 pm

If it's in the style of the Keystone Creations flanged mace heads, you might try shelling out the inside curve/window of the flange. That would seem to both cut down the mass of the mace head and provide more "give" to the flange. Of course, it might also weaken the flange itself somewhat.

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:45 am

I am not in the SCA so I don't know if this would be legal or not, but have you considered useing camp pad for the mace flanges? I have made lots of LARP style weapons for my group, and when we go to heavy this spring I plan on making maces on the rattan with camp pad heads.

If you would like to see the boffers go here: http://www.wyndmyre.com/gryphon/marshall/boffer/bofferpics.htm

hjalmr · Post by **hjalmr** » Wed Jan 23, 2002 1:50 pm

I personally feel that the rubber heads hit too hard. Perhaps I just fought people who swung too hard, and it wasn't the heads problem (hehe) -but I've damn near had concussions from the few shots that I have taken from them.

In single combat I have a simple choice -don't get hit! But in melee it's a different story -I always seem to get illegally struck by them from people who are not engaged with me (and no I wasn't ignoring them, I literally got backstabbed).

I feel people swing them harder then most weapons because alot of people are not use to taking non rattan thunking blows. We have a new person in our group who just thumps people into the ground with his rubber headed axe and nearly sends people to the hospital on a regular basis -ain't that right Conrad?

I have no real problem with these rubber headed mold, as long as the user realizes that they hit hard and you don't need to hit home runs to strike a telling blow -against most people anyway.

I also think they look great and wouldn't mind getting some myself.

(^_^)

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Wed Jan 23, 2002 10:31 pm

well....guys....they are approved Society wide...so the marshal really cant "ban" the weapon...especially if your Kingdom approved the use of it already.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Jan 24, 2002 12:38 pm

Sarnac has a point. However perhaps cutting out some little triangles of closed cell foam and duct taping them inside the flanges would help make your local marshall a bit happier. I don't see why they'd hit that much harder than a plain piece of rattan though. <<shrug>>

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]]\\[[ (()) ]]\\//[[ //=\\ ]]))

Michael AKA Nomad
Barony of Starkhafn, Caid

Vogeljager · Post by **Vogeljager** » Thu Jan 24, 2002 2:05 pm

They hit like a dead-blow hammer.

A rubber axe to the head will rattle anyones cage if not used by an experienced fighter pulling his blows. We don't let the newbies use them.

I don't know why they land so heavy, but they do.

justmagnus · Post by **justmagnus** » Sat Jan 26, 2002 4:02 pm

Nomad, I have spoken with Corydon Rathbone extensively about the rubber axe-head that he produces (being a Man-at-Arms to him). The head is designed so that the striking edge will collapse in the opening thereby dissipating the force of the blow. Your suggestion of putting foam blocks in there would reduce the effectiveness of this. I think the rules forbid taping over the opening for the same reason.

Vogeljager, the most likely reason they are landing like a deadblow hammer is that they are being swung too hard. Like any weapon a person has to practice with it to get the proper blow calibration.

One person in our local group likes to point to the only dent he has in his 12ga Stainless Steel Bascinet was put there by a great sword. Obviously someone that needed to work on blow calibration.

Owen · Post by **Owen** » Sun Jan 27, 2002 10:00 am

Repeatedly boiling it will harden it, not soften it. The heat drives off plasicizers in the rubber.

Try adding a strip of foam to each "edge".

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Sat Feb 02, 2002 6:00 am

Murdoch has one of the maces they hit HARD! I can feel it through a 16 gauge solid breastplate, not just feel it, it hurts LOL.I cant figure out why, but they seem to hit harder than a two handed Del tin steel sword, I'm not kidding here.They look great,and can be used ,but ya got to pull the blows......Otto

Brodir · Post by **Brodir** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 4:15 am

Flonzy, those boffers are great! I play one weekend a year with a Scottish boffer fighting club, and would like to try making something like what you're using for next year. Good work.

Stoffel · Post by **Stoffel** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:26 pm

I've never been hit by a rubber weapon head, but I noticed that some of the toilet paper roll maces are killer. One guy in our shire has one that the toilet paper is going limp on, and if you get hit in the head you end up with wiplash for a couple of days. I refuse to fight the guy with it anymore, because I'm sure hes going to take my helmet off my head some time.

Payn · Post by **Payn** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Otto von Teich:
Murdoch has one of the maces they hit HARD! I can feel it through a 16 gauge solid breastplate, not just feel it, it hurts LOL.I cant figure out why, but they seem to hit harder than a two handed Del tin steel sword, I'm not kidding here.They look great,and can be used ,but ya got to pull the blows......Otto</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well...
1) mass. more mass at the end, more momentum

2) rubber grips steel. Steel either cleaves or slides on steel.

3) fighters get signed off with X weapon before they show that they are actually safe with said weapon (at least locally).

I sometimes fight with an axe that, under the old rules, was 10 ounces under max weapon weight. I have had a few marshalls try to bounce it. I ask what rule are you bouncing my weapon on?
They stammer and say it's not safe. I reply with that it's legal according to the rules, and I am authorized to fight safely with X weapon style. Would you like me to fight and "authorizing" style fight for you?

This generally solves most issues. Also my Kingdom Earl Marshal has approved it and I know his weakness for scotch and I got his cell phone number.

:-)

Fritz the peasant