Production armorer needs your input

[Metalbender]

I'm getting ready to begin production of armour in two weeks.

Spring is coming, and it's time to begin stocking for it.

I would appreciate the input of those of you needing new armour,and items you may find difficult to find,or that the armourers who offer them are either booked up,or otherwise unavailable.

Let me preface this in advance.I am a full time professional in this trade,my patterns are my stock in trade, and I do not offer them,period,so please don't ask.

The only "kit" parts I do are articulated elbows and knees. Everything else I make is as a finished and complete item. No exceptions.

I intend to take your advice and make finished items ready for sale. I will then either contact those of you who have expressed a SERIOUS interest,and are ready to purchase as I finish them,or if not,post them on Ebay for sale..

My thanks in advance for your interest and input,Sven the Armorer.

[Metalbender]

75 reads,and no one has ANY ideas?

Sighs ok then. I'm going to do a run or migration era helms first,probably around ten, in various sizes and styles.

I'll post the links when they are done,Regards,Sven

[Guest]

I don't know how much credence I give the # of reads feature...

I'd say... um... don't know...

I'm currently putting together 3 suits of armour...
1 crusader
1 transitional
1 crappy loaner suit

I've found everything I needed quickly... (three month time frame)

The only thing that gave me trouble were cheap helmets... (that weren't spuntop pieces of she-ite.

[witchking13]

the only thing i can say is if you fight or know fighters have them ask their friends to take a survey of what periods they like, what pieces of armor they need most, etc.
then make it.
hope i helped,
Brian

[Greylond]

I would appreciate the input of those of you needing new armour,and items you may find difficult to find,or that the armourers who offer them are either booked up,or otherwise unavailable.

Just an observation, not a real need on my part..

Greaves. Not enough greaves being offered.

[Thomas H]

if you do castings. i'd be interested in a crossbow spanning hook for a belt. i hope you know what i mean. i'm not sure if it is the right term.

[Lord Ogier]

Greetings Metalbender,

I am seeing a greater interest in both Imperical and Republican Roman stuff.

I will be doing one of each in the next couple of months as the guys who want them have the $$ to get started.

Hope this helps
Ogier de Corbiel
Corbiel Armory

[T. Devon Sharkey]

Well, ok, I'm game. I would like to see an armorer produce quality, period-style helms that are SCA legal. That is to say, helms without bargrills, or, if with bargrills, done in a period fashion. In particular, I'd like to see attractive barbutes, or visored sallets (a "bellows" or "sparrow" visor comes to mind..)

And there is always a need for high quality gauntlets.

[Sven]

Sven, I don't know how many people confuse me with you! I live in Midhaven, just north of you. I make maille. only maille.... But people still get confused...

I even got complimented on YOUR helms at Ursulmas. I again explained to the Good Gentle that it was Sven the Armorer he wanted to talk to...

Anyway... I'm trying to do a norse persona, and I desire "stealth" elbow cops for under the maille. Big fans are right out. Any ideas?

[Lothar the Wanderer]

I would say that good brass buckles and dress rivets are in short supply. Most armor bits are readily available...Maybe enclosed thumb gauntlets...

Lothar

[Sean Powell]

If you lived in Atlantia I would suggest greaves and Sabatons. Thier new no-visible-plastic rule also preclude modern looking foot gear. A good set of sabatons over tennis shoes would be an acceptable fix.

It seems most armorers make their bread and butter off cage face bascinets but that market is also flooded.

If you need to pick something to specialize in then ask yourself "What am I BEST at" If its articulation skip the helms and do joints. If its welding and grinding then do non-spangen or later period helms. If its riveting plates together then spangen or great-helms. If its brass-work or etching or gun-bluing then stick with that. I think the way to break into a market is find a nitch to exploit... but only you know your skill set... and your available tools. I'm not gonna suggest spring tempered items if you don't already have a kiln (Although I think there is an ever growing market for spring temper armor)

Good luck in the new business.
Sean

[HvR]

I realize that you indicated you work in completed kits, but there seems to be a lack of availability of decent pre-made hinges on the market that are reasonably priced that do not have the "Stanley" armourers mark on them

[magustoad]

Helms and full gauntlets for new people. Those are the two that, to me at least, are the hardest to get/manufacture and still look decent on a budget for Joe New-Guy.

[Brian de Lorne]

I've actually found most everything I've needed, except for a nice medieval looking kidney belt. I've started making my own, but maybe offering a leather/steel belt of somekind (splinted maybe), if at all period, would be a nice addition.

Again, not sure if it's period or not.

BTW, if that bloodwood dagger is yours, it's beautiful! What's the specs/cost of that beauty?

[freiman the minstrel]

I read but did not reply, as I don't expect that I will be buying armour in the next few months.

Since you said that you need my input (boy, you must be hard up for that ) I think that you probably need to look at what sold last year. Work on bringing your cost down as much as possible on those pieces, and see if you can have on hand the sales from the previous year.

I am thinking that you probably want to concentrate on helms and hands. Both Half Gaunts and full gaunts. If you have a quick basket hilt pattern, then make one of those for each of the pairs of half gaunts.

The idea of non-bar grille helms is, in my opinion (and only that) a good idea for reinactment, but a bad one for business. Bar grille helms sell, and that is what you are looking for.

I have heard persistant rumors about hockey gloves being made verboten, so perhaps hand brotection, in an affordable and accessable form, is a good idea.

Please note that I am not a professional armourer, and I rarely, if ever, buy armor.

freiman

[James of York]

Metalbender, here's my two cents, I feel in this day and age, price with quality is going to make an armourer successful.
I feel the philosophy of moving more product at less profit margin is the way to go. As one of the financially challenged individuals I appreciate an armourer who offers a middle of the line product.
Example: a nice 14 ga. stainless bascinet can range from $500-$700 I found 2 armourers making them for $350.00 the differences are barely noticable, maybe a little less angle here or extra detail there. The work may not museum quality but it is much, much better than munitions grade.
I guess all I am saying is dont price yourself out of the market for the people who only have limited funds to put toward their hobbies.

[Metalbender]

Firstly let me state I have been doing this for 22 years full time,I'm not "new"

Only new to the net, and selling in this venue. Most of my armour is mid range stuff priced for standard parts. An average mild steel helm will run you 150 to 200 bucks.

Stainless usually tops out at 400 for a really detailed one.

I can do this consistently due the the fact that I have tooled up extensively with presses and dies to do the forming,and I definitely know how to pattern and articulate correctly.

My armour is high quality and lasting, and pieces I made fifteen years ago are still out there in service. Rust is still my biggest enemy.

I'm tending these days to shy away from custom work,preffering to do more stock items in averaged ranges,but with individual fitting when needed.

I find mixing custom with production tends to screw up both, and while stock runs are more boring,at least I don't get behind and in trouble with customers by trying to do it all,with predictable results.

I've had problems like many armorers in the past with getting behind on orders, and it was usually from trying to do too much too quickly and I guess I'm not superman after all.

I can only do so much in my average 10 to 12 hour day,and I need to make the best use of that time.

Thus my tendency not to want to do custom,unless someone is really willing to pay what it's worth, and it ain't cheap folks. I know many of you have a need to feel special, but please, not at the expense of ME living in poverty to do it.

Smiles there have been a lot of armorers going bust in the past few years and leaving you folks with the short end of the stick. I don't plan to add to the list of failures.

Remember this old adage.

You can have it right. You can have it fast. You can have it cheap.

Pick TWO.

As far as making smaller fittings,sorry, that's why you can't find them. It takes thousands of dollars to tool up and buy machines to produce parts like that for affordable prices, and the volume just isn't there to support an adequate return on the investment.

I'm VERY serious about this,it's my living-but I am here to serve YOUR needs, so your input is vital.

As far as my knives and swords that is a new product line, and exciting to me-I will be making things like swords with full standardized tangs so that furniture is swappable and easily replaceable-performance grade professionally tempered spring steel pieces of the same high quality and durability as my armour had always been.

I am building machines to make stock lines in as automatic and predictable a manner as possible,rather than being a hand maker who could not make the same thing twice if his life depended on it.

And with the end goal of being able to offer in stock items at reasonable prices.

I greatly apreciate any and all input any of you would care to communicate to me. My main email address for any further info or price requests is: metalbendrr@msn.com

Best wishes, Sven the Amorer

[Templar Bob/De Tyre]

I would appreciate the input of those of you needing new armour,and items you may find difficult to find,or that the armourers who offer them are either booked up,or otherwise unavailable.

I intend to take your advice and make finished items ready for sale. I will then either contact those of you who have expressed a SERIOUS interest,and are ready to purchase as I finish them,or if not,post them on Ebay for sale..

My thanks in advance for your interest and input,Sven the Armorer.

If the question is aimed at SCAers, I'd advise building styles of helms that are not commonly met with (i. e., "Phrygian" helms, "Salt-Shaker" pot helms, visored sugarloaf helms) with a specific eye to the decorative details (etched brass trim, coronets, etc.). You could also offer helms (such as bascinets) with both interchangeable barred visors and plate visors, to make them workable for the summer melée season as well as the more dressy "Pas d'armes" or "Crown/Coronet" style tourneys.

Fluting on helmet bowls wouldn't hurt the look, either. Anything that makes the armour unique from the "cookie-cutter" stuff on the field would help immensely.

I'd love to see you make finger-gauntlets that could be used in SCA combat safely without requiring a basket hilt.

Having just looked at the items you've made, you have a good eye for Milanese plate armour. The suit you built for Al looks like an Italian Export harness from the Missaglia shops. Good work.

You could also offer lighter "dress" versions of your equipment to the "Living History" crowd. I would purchase such things from you.

Hope this helps,

[Aaron]

Sven,

There are two items that the hobby-armourer can't easily make themselves, and therefore are always in demand:

1. Guantlets.
2. Helms.

You could start on making Andy Ward style gauntlets now, and I seriously doubt you could keep them in stock. The guantlet you have on the web-site is rather fancey, and particular to 1500-1600 AD. When I get back to New Jersey in March, I'll mail you out a copy of Andy Ward's pattern if you want -- it's simple and protective.


Are you Sven the Armourer who worked with 1st Cav in the Blath An Noir region? If so, I had a pair of knees made by you (mild steel, waxed leather with splints on the thighs), but I gave them away to a younger fighter who thighs fit them better (almost exactly) and do his viking persona justice. Many armourers said that they could not recreate such articualtion, and it was the best they've ever seen.

Sven the Armourer is a legend in An Tir -- sort of like the Bigfoot of Armoring (mythic and elusive, but leaving his tracks/armour everywhere). I enjoyed fighting in your armour for almost two years...and the legs were USED and had seen long service with others...and the fellow I gave them to will make sure they see many a Pennsic. Thank you.

-Aaron

PS: I would go with gauntlets...

[Metalbender]

Well finger guantlets require an awful lot of very tedious and prescise fitting,I doubt I could do them by mail and have them work,so that's out,also would be somewhere round the 600 buck range due to extensive amounts of time involved.

Even scale fingered gaunlets like the gothic ones on the site require a solid 14 to 16 hours a pair to make.

Yes Aron, that would be Me,grins. I only go to events occasionally for fun.I have Priscilla (Amberfire) take my armour out to smaller events.I get to do more work and have an actual life that way-People should just drop me a line by email if they need a particular item,I can work it in usually.

I do get laugh when I haven't gone to an event in a while, and some newbie comes up and begins partonizing the "New Guy."

I just smile and nod and wander off,often hearing from someone talking to the person as a leave,"Do you know who that WAS? It's Sven the armorer,and He's been in this Kingdom since 1982 ,Nimrod!"

And I'd love to see an easier style of gauntlets that work,thanks.


Regards Terry

[Aaron]

Howdy Terry!

Wow...I'm talking to the "Legend of An Tir". You're sort of the Ninja / Santa Claus / Robin Hood legend of An Tir...the armour who ghosts in, deposits armour and rides away through the pine trees.

I've sent you photos of my gauntlets (modified Andy Ward).

If my wife can find the pattern (that's saying a lot), I'll send you a copy.

When you get a copy, can you put it on the Archive pattern archive? Andy Ward wanted me to do that a long time ago, but I've been procrastinating.

-Aaron

[Tancred de Lanvellec]

Speaking as a 15th Century reenactor - things which are hard to find are a good pair of accurate gauntlets - many armorers come close but often the design is to facilitate fighting witha rattan weapon in mind and not a period weapon. Also, floating couters and period knees " archer's knees" would be nice. Jack chains would be cool, IMHO.
As far as hemlets- It's hard to find good period kettle hats this side of the Atlantic.
Just my thoughts!
Oh yeah- buckles are good and PEWTER purse equipment would be nice.
Tanc
P.S> Nice stuff on your page!

[Maelgwyn]

An armour demand that I see growing in the SCA: lightweght helms in youth sizes for boffer combat.

A lot of parents are shelling out $30-75 for hockey gear that looks like...hockey gear. I think 18 guage bascinets and spangens in youth sizes at a reasonable price would sell well. Is anyone making these?

[Steinn]

I'll put my vote in for gauntlets. Well-sized gauntlets with well-designed thumbs, ones that offer the thumb protection from bending backwards. I'm beginning to feel like Goldilocks in my search for some... The first pair was too small, current pair is HUGE (and a pain in the neck to pad). I'd love a pair that actually fit and articulate in the way that hands actually close.

[Ewan]

"Soupcan" Couters and Polyens like in Krags Essay in the armour essay section here: http://www.armourarchive.org/essays/poleyns_krag/

I know I would buy a set of each since my armour got stolen and I need to replace them.

I'm up in Avacal in An-Tir and will be needing a bunch of stuff in the next few months so I'll drop you a line.

[Aaron]

Terry,

The only problem with you announcing you are Sven the Armourer, is that the Urban Legends about you can be put to rest...

...many people thought Sven the Armourer was Bill Gates, and he just ghosted into events, dropped off armour he made, and ran away because he didn't want to face the press.

-Aaron