a newbie question to all the broke people :)

[wangthunder]

im sure this has been asked before, but maybe someone can answer it again .

im pretty broke, and was looking for materials to make armor out of, i cant find a cheap supply of good thick vegtan leather, and ive heard of people using the heavy duty, rubbermade trashcans, here is my question:
has anyone here done this? if so, do you have any suggestions at all. i know this is a broad question, but im looking for all the suggestions and help i can get, thanks in advance.

[Alcyoneus]

Not Rubbermaid, but industrial plastic barrels, they are often about $10 apiece. If that is what you need to make your armor out of, it will look much better if you cover it in fabric. Armor from the Battle of Wisby would work pretty well out of covered plastic.

If you are wanting to make Japanese armor out of it, here is the best place I know of to get info on how to make to to a high standard:
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/0.Katchu.html

[Armourkris]

Cheap stuff,well, maille is usually cheap, i pay 34 dollars for a 1/4 mile spool of wire'thats canadian, not sure where you are though.
Plastic barrels work well, i just finished a corrizina for my room mate made from them. i;m also making a scale shirt out of 20 gauge spring steel scales, they're rectangular and rivited on. all i needed was a good dril bit, a drill with a waranty, and banding from the lumber yard, and tin snips to cut them out. it's tedious, but it looks awesome.

if you have a good sewing machine or the patience to hand sew then there are a few kinds of fabric armour that you oculd do as well.

[Vladimir]

Here is what me and a bunch of my college buddys did.

first, (since I am assuming you are inexperienced with armouring) find a very simple pattern here on the archive. We made breastplates.

then, save some of your pennies and go in on a big piece of steel from a local hardware store with 3 or 4 of your friends, the one we got was 4 feet wide and about 6-8 feet long. Then you all split the cost of renting a jig saw and buy a couple of metal cutting blades.

roll or fold your edges so you don't have to worry about filing as much.

PRESTO!! Very inexpensive armour.

upper legs and forearms are also pretty easy. Personally I suggest getting a profesional to make the cops and helmet.

If you still want to use plastic, I've heard that 5 gallon buckets can make a nice coat of plates or brig.

[ironmongermisc]

You have to learn to be a scrounge,, be always on the lookout for stuff as someone's trash can be your treasure.

Example; Several of us went to a lumberyard to buy some discounted plywood. In a big barrel were lots of 2' wide spring steel bands they get the pallets of lumber in. We asked and got them for free Each one was 12' long, and 20 gauge. So we 'weaved' them like a pietop lattice and riveted the end down after we cut breastplate/backplate blanks out of it, then riveted them to some leather leveling splits on the inside to prevent pinches and armor bites,,

Viola!! somewhat Oriental looking armor, super light, super strong as it was two layers of spring steel that 'tensed' when buckled to make a hard bell of torso armor,,

[freiman the minstrel]

Plastic is cheap, but it has some real drawbacks. Most of these are "social" drawbacks, rather than performance drawbacks. It can frequently be had for free in the form of white buckets from fast food places. Plastic's best use (in my opinion) is for plates within a wisby stule coat of plates. The fabric portion can be made is such a way that the plated rest in pockets, completely hidden inside the garment. This avoids most of the problems of exposed plastic. It is also advantagous in that the fabric portions of the garment can be thrown in the washing machine. Please note, I do not use one of these, and I have not personally know anyone who has.

Other parts of the rig can be made with plastic as well. Check the web for instructions on making armour out of plastic. The advice about covering the plastic with cloth is a good idea. Upholstery leather can be attached to plastic legs and arms with spray adhesive, covering up the plasic.

Maile is probably the most classy of the less expensive armors. You can buy a roll of electric fence wire at your local farmer's co-op and make a mandrel on your own. Add a couple of pairs of pliers and a good nipper, and you are in the game. A full maille haubrec (my spelling) will attract all sorts of good attention. The down side, of course, is that it takes a lot of time, both during construction and continually after that for maintenence.

Basic newbie knees and elbows can be banged out on a dishing stump in the back yard practically for free. If you are cutting the "blanks" from an old street sign (and please don't ever steal street signs) it might be better for you to use a steel(ish) sign, rather than an aluminum sign. Aluminum can be frustrating to work. The way to easily tell the difference is to see if a refrigerator magnet sticks to it. I have also seen decent (not good) quick and dirty basket hilts and half guants banged out on stumps behind college students' tenaments. All of these require access to a jigsaw or better method for cutting metal. I have found that old signs end up at the metal recyclery on the nearby army post. Try for yourself at scrap metal yards. You will need to go there for something to use as an anvil anyway.

Gorgets are pretty easy if you know somebody that has leather scraps, or are willing to work for a while on metal ones.

Perhaps the best armor value I have ever seen is the great helm kit (with tools) that a fellow here on the archive is working up. It is for a 20 guage helm (I think) so the helm itself would not be for SCA combat (and I am guessing that is what you are talking about) but the tools and the techniques will serve you in good stead for a long time.

A padded gambeson is relativly easy and cheap, but again the cost is time. Ditto for a fighting tabard. These are probably the most inexpensive method for improving the appearance of your rig, and there is probably somebody in your shire who will help you with it.

For a helmet, the answer is to buy it.

My recomendation is to keep the rest of the rig cheap, and splurge for the hardtop. It is the most expensive part of the rig, and it's the most visible. You will probably use it the longest, and you will be much happier with a decent one. If you are going to bottom dollar the hardtop too, then try Trueheart armories. They have the cheapest prices on basic helms I know of.

The other way to do a helm is a used helmet. One effective way to do this is to call everybody you know who fights, and ask if they have an old one for sale. This can make you less popular, but it usually works pretty fast.

Good luck

f

[James of York]

Greetings Wangthunder, I also started off with very limited funds and no armour, it stinks but you can make a decent kit. Have you picked a time period yet? I went with the cheapest way to get out on the field. Great helm and CoP.
Street signs can be had from a scrap yard also call your local dept of roads and highways they just may give you old ones. I bought 16 ga. aluminum, upolstery grade crushed velvet, and canvas (oh yea tube style rivets from tandy leather) and about a week later had a beautiful Wisby CoP for about $50.00.
With a creative imagination and a lot of work, you can get on the field with very little money and also look good.
I suggest with the time and energy you will put into it, go the extra mile to make it look as good and as period as possible so you wont have to start upgrading even before you actually start. Take your time, ask questions, and most importaintly have fun at it. You have a great resource of knowledge online here.
Almost forgot, about plastic, most people really "dog" plastic users because of the looks of it but I have heard that it is a great insulator of heat, so be careful of heat exaustion if you plan on using it.
Aluminum and mild steel are not that much more expensive than plastic and I think you will be more pleased with metal.

[Edwin]

It seems that all the guys in my shire that have made their own armor got the steel from junkyards. They made periodic trips, taking magnets and calipers (to measure thickness) until they had what they wanted. Takes time and patience, but is very inexpensive.

Butted maille is also very cheap, as already mentioned. I can get 1/2 mile of galvanized steel electic fence wire in 14ga for about $10 from the local farm-store, and then it's maybe $25 for hardware and tools.

Stores like Play-it-Again Sports can be treasure-troves as well. I used a pair of hockey gloves for gauntlets that cost $15. You can get any type of padding at a used-sports equipment store for cheap. Be nice and cover it with clothing, and follow through on plans to replace with better once you can afford it.

Also, check leather suppliers on a monthly basis or so. I've only bought 2 hides for full retail. I just finished up the last hide I bought, 3 years ago for $50 (12 to 16oz, on bargain at Tandy Leather). Haven't seen it that cheap since then, or even before then. I also found some sole-leather at $20 per bend (about 12oz, 16square feet) that I stocked up on.

Patience is the trick. Patience and persistence.

[wangthunder]

thanks everyone for all the feedback, i really appreciate it.

i know enough about armoring to make armor, but the problem was i couldnt find any dealers close to me. i just reciently found a steel mill about 20 miles away, i think they sell sheets of 16 gauge mild for really cheap, but, im going to have to make a stump and a dishing hammer, and find a planishing hammer somewhere.

im going norse era, prolly between 700-1000ad, i thought of making chainmail (the most logical choice), i know i can buy some rings online, but two things came to mind, 1) how strong is butted mail? is it strong enough to hold up to some combat and still not part?. and 2) what time frame am i looking at here?, how long will it take to make a shirt?, im a pretty big guy, 6'0 220 pounds.

i like the idea of making a cop out of buckets, im tempted to go buy some fabric, and buy a trashcan, make some plates, and just rivet them on and see how it looks, i can probably get all of that for under 15 dollars.

what i originally thought of doing was just heat-treating the plastic to mold it, then pop some rivets in and find some leather strips or something, but like alot of you said, it wouldnt look that great.

oh, another question , padding. where can i find some matfoam or something nice to pad with?, not sure if wallmart or anyplaces sell anything like that.

i guess ill go to work now , im gonna check this bootshop down the road and see if they have any leather, if so, i may find some steel and try to plunk around or something.

like i said, thanks again for all the help, and more is welcome .

[James of York]

As far as padding goes, if you are referring to the closed cell foam padding, wal mart has the blue bed rolls for like $5.00, If it's u are looking for fabric type padding for a gambeson U-Haul has packing blankets for about $15.00.
For leather try Tandy leather they have pretty good prices
http://www.tandyleather.com
Hope this helps

[T. Finkas]

PLASTIC:
Plastic drums can often be obtained at car washes for FREE. They are used to ship detergent. You will need a jigsaw to work it. You could probably pick up an electric "sabre-saw" for 10-20 bucks at a yard sale.

Be warned: this material yeilds FUGLY, non-authentic results that work best if hidden under clothing. And go with a white, black or grey barrel if you can scrounge one---the blue just looks awful!

METAL:
Consider making your own scale plates. and make a coat of scale. Scale can look VERY bitchin, it just takes a lot of work. You might even be able to scrounge the material. Of course, scales with embossing or a crease down the vertical axis are stronger that flat or slightly curved ones. For tools, all you need is a pair of tin snips, a hole punch, emery paper. You might be able to attach the scales to a jerkin scavanged from an old suede coat.

----------------

Just some low-cost ideas...

[Aaron]

Hang on a second... Didn't someone on the Archive post a "cheap norse" suit concept that would hold up (on the outside) to authenticity?

-Aaron

[Cedric]

Got a shoe maker anywhere near you? We got a half a barrel of scrap leather (perfect for straps etc) for pretty much nothing...

[ironmongermisc]

What group are you doing this for out of curiousity? SCa, Adrian, Markland, Scriptum Armorum?

[wangthunder]

sca

[Maelgwyn]

Hang on a second... Didn't someone on the Archive post a "cheap norse" suit concept that would hold up (on the outside) to authenticity?

My class notes on planning and researching armour for a time and place included a low-cost Viking example. See http://www.cox-internet.com/kmarsh/armour.doc

[Ivo]

Hi.

Actually I am broke most of the time and I am striving for autheticity nevertheless. So plastic to me is no- go.

If you are out for armour, first have a look at your local scrapyards.
There should be plenty of steel sheeting in all thicknesses and sizes. Smaller shards and offcuts might have just the right size for a bundle of scales or even a spangenhelm project.
Normally scrapyards are selling their stuff by the weight and charge you a minimum for their piggybank if you don´t buy by the truckload.

Look for the non- ferrous scraps as well...with a bit of brass sheeting of 2-3mm thickness, a jigsaw and some needle files (plus a bit of practising, at least if you haven´t been born with two left hands full of thumbs).
Have a look at my buckles under

http://www.katzbalger.com/guertelschnallen.htm

The upper and the lower buckle are my work, I simply and filed them from scrap.

It all depends from money, but not only. If you are ready to invest some time and practise, you can get away with a minimum of tools and money and achieve maximum results. Especially when forums like this are packed with info.

Regards

Ivo

[losthelm]

coat of plates or a churburg are cake. as for matereal sorces find freinds call scrap yards and dpeartment of publick works/highway department.
ask if they have any. hunt the scrap yard regularly. show up with pastrys or beer.

seatbelts can be used for a lot of straping. leather belts from the volintears of america/ salvation army/ american vertrains/ good will for everything else. as for the tools and what not ask around. someone might be around to help out with some armouring experiance.
if so everytime you show up call a head. bring stuff. bread cookies metal tools books beer wine does not matter what just bring somthing.

talk to some of the other local people get organized to break up the places your searching. so you as an indavidual can build a repor with the supplyer.