Grousing: Size and know-nothing spectators

[Noe]

I am a rather difficult person to anger. You have to work at it, and even then, I usually don't realize that I'm really angry until much later.

Nevertheless, everynow and then someone finds my little red button and thumbs it with apparent disregard for life and limb. Well, not too much disregard for life and limb; as mentioned above, my emotional reaction time is indicative that perhaps my neural network is a holdover of some sort from the time of the dinosaurs.

So I'm at practice the other day, and we're doing a bear pit practice doing counted blows. Just a bit tiring. I had just finished what is for me a particularly good streak -- nine straight wins -- and was sitting off on the sidelines getting my wind back and blessing Lord Philip for having bested me.

In any case, there was this gaijin guy standing nearby, watching the fights with his Japanese girlfriend. He says to me, "Well, I guess I see now why the vikings beat up on the English: It's good to be big."

In that one sentence my good mood and sense of self-satisfaction vanished. This pudgy little guy with thinning hair and the soft look of someone who gets most of his exercise from diddling a mouse had cheapened my success and passed it off as just a size advantage.

First of all, in an SCA group back home, I don't think I would be that big -- maybe 6'2" and 225lbs. Over here I'm admittedly pretty large, but I mulled it over for a second and disagreed. I said that, pretty reasonably, I though, that yes, it is good to have size and reach, but really speed and technique are factors that are just as important. The fact that I was winning had more to do with my having at least three more years experience than anyone else on the field, and having never missed practice, and having studied various fechtbuchs to find techniques to improve myself as a fighter.

I might as well have been talking to a post. He just gave me a "Yeah, you would say that, wouldn't you" look.

I think more than anything I'm just irritated by the casual rudeness of his comments. If a baseball player hit a home run, would you wait by the dugout and say, hey, the only reason you did well is because you are big?

The sad thing is that I can't even really bring myself to be truly angry. When I look at his comments, I realize that they stem largely from his own sense of inadequacy. Before practice, he had been commenting on how he might want to practice as well. I think he saw us fight counted blows -- a truly balls-to-the-wall rules system, especially with a little grappling -- and felt intimidated. In order to compensate for the cognitive dissonance accompanying such unmanning sub-thoughts, he had to run me down to make himself feel better. The fact that his woman was there probably didn't help.

Most of this is just grousing; nevertheless, this is not the first time that I have had spectators make defensively disparaging comments. What kind of similar experiences have you had, and how do you handle them?

[D. Sebastian]

Size without skill is a big target.

You should have had told him "Hold my helm while I kiss your girlfriend".

[Morgan]

You KNOW he's a know-nothing. So why get angry at his ignorance? It's almost like admitting he's right, you see. Some people LIKE being ignorant, because they can feel self-important in thier own little world.

[Madyn]

I can't comment about this particular guy, becasue I wasn't there, but not everyone who asks the size question is willfully wallowing in ignorance or feeling inadequate.

I'm not a small fella, and when I've tried to explain what we do, and how there are no weight classes, and I've been asked, "But surely you must just can squash all the Lilliputians. They're shrimps, right, and you should be able to bowl over them."

I go into the spiel about skill, technique, experience, blahblahblah, and some people still have a hard time understanding--they know featherweights don't fight Mike Tysons, they see defensive ends devastate QBs, they know Olympic wrestling doesn't pit midgets against gorillas. In their experience, size might not be the deciding factor, but it sure as heck helps. And if the SCA allowed grappling, shield bashes and got rid of indestructible shields and limits on how much force you can put behind a shot with a greatsword, size and strength would play a bigger role. Of course, everyone would get broken and no one would play anymore, but the point is: given a limited understanding of the game or its rules, I don't think it's all that ridiculous for people to assume that size is important to physical combat.

[Jehan de Pelham]

Noe, you know the answer to this question, already.

Now all you have to do is polish your own ego to the point where such "water," as I'll call this fellow's words, flowing over you has no place to catch hold and cause turbulence.

Probably the best thing to say would have been "Yes, it is. " I mean, after all, the initial comment indicates the level of knowledge the person has regarding the relationship between size, and skill, and results in combat. Size matters, and don't let anyone say differently, but it is a tool, or a liability, like anything.

I have never had anyone tell me that my size has been a factor in fighting, maybe they should, because like my knight, I am on the smallish side, and so many of my victories must come, naturally, from the fact that my large opponents have had difficulty discovering me on the field. I have had people intimate to me things like "It must be good to be able to throw money at a problem," to which I reply "Money is a powerful lubricant to life's problems." And, like you, I didn't get angry at it, recognizing it as the inoffensive observation that it is.

Jehan de Pelham, squire to Sir Vitus

P.S.: There is nothing sad about not getting angry at a minor irritation.

[Gaston de Vieuxchamps]

Heh, I know where you are coming from. I'm not a large. I recently graduated to medium from small...

But I am left handed

[Alcyoneus]

But I am left handed

Sorry about that.

[David Edwinson]

But I am left handed

Yeah, I can see where that held you back...

[Dalewyn]

Well, I for one can say that the guy was 90% wrong. Yes, being big does enable you as a new fighter to throw harder shots right from the start before you learn good technique, but it might slow down you learning of such good techniques as well. You can also throw a couple of blows that don't generate a lot of power themselves, and bull them up a bit to make them good enough. Range is a little better. That's it. Skill counts for a lot. When I see a tall fighter on the field, I start drooling over all that target area to hit. I'm 5'4" and I've won lots of fights (and tournements) against much taller fighters. I won Baronial champion against a fighter 6'2". A few times recently very experienced (read: pain resistant) fighters have mentioned that a couple of my shots were too hard. So, as you said, experience and expertise count for a lot; if you're bigger than me and you beat me, you also happen to be better.

PS: I don't want to have to block your charge, however...

[Rainald]

...First of all, in an SCA group back home, I don't think I would be that big -- maybe 6'2" and 225lbs...

Your actually almost petite compared to some of the fellas here in Meridies. Big John and Moose come to mind.

I really wouldn't let some paunchy mouse diddler get you riled up. Lifes too short.

[Gaston de Vieuxchamps]

But I am left handed

Yeah, I can see where that held you back...

My point exactly. Lefties, like biggies, often get quite tired of having any successes they might have attributed to the luck of physical makeup rather than the hours of training and hard work they have put into this game.

It is an advantage to be large. It is an advantage to be left-handed. These advantages are not such that you can base a career on them.

I have to laugh every time someone tells me that Baldar's sucess can be attributed to natural physical talent. I've even had people tell me similar things about myself. Christ, I was the only kid that struck out at T-ball and, until SCA melees, was ALWAYS the last kid picked for any team. Baldar was everyone's favorite pell for several years before he got so fed up that he transformed hinsef in his Rocky summer of 1000 pell blows a day every day.

[David Edwinson]

My point exactly. Lefties, like biggies, often get quite tired of having any successes they might have attributed to the luck of physical makeup rather than the hours of training and hard work they have put into this game.

I hope to be able to complain that my successes are being attributed to being lefty some day!

DaE

[Patton Lives]

I think people fail to realize that having a weapon is the equalizing factor in all out battle as opposed to unarmed battle.

[SirSylvanar]

I'm not an SCA fighter,but i am an athlete and one thing ive learned is something like what happened to u is why spectators are on the sidelines. They would rather cristsize your greatness or success then do it themselves.

[Egfroth]

He was wrong about the Vikings, too. They were no bigger than the English.

Oh, and and they had their share of lost battles, too. In fact, the major reason they had such success in England was the chaotic political system there, not that they were particularly more successful on the battlefield.

[Parlan]

You answer your question in your second to last paragraph. Feel sad for the guy and just walkaway. YOU know what it takes and you tried to educate him. His bad for not listening.

[Noe]

Interesting comments.

Sebastion: Congratulations, you managed to completely crack Weasel-girl up.

It sounds like the comments on lefties were just the kind of thing I was talking about.

[Sir Guy]

Noe, tell Pudgy boy that I wish to meet with him when I return from fighting the Crusades with the Avalon King. I am most displeased that he hurt your feelings. Oh, and don't forget to introduce him to Sir Cadugan.

Sir Guy

[Richard Blackmoore]

Size, power, reach, strength and endurance can make a huge difference in your success ratio.

Then again, having been bested by enough short, thin, fat and out of shape people, physical size and conditioning are no guarantee of success.

Richard Blackmoore

[Noe]

Thanks, Guy, but this is really a self-correcting problem. He is merely ignorant and nervous at this point. I feel like if we can get folks like that to fight, they will find the confidence they need to act like well-mannered human beings. I'm a big believer in fighting for personal growth.

And hey, if studying fighting doesn't help folks like that any, at least I get to legally hit them with sticks.

Richard: That is the thing, isn't it. How often have any of us taken the field only to get taken apart by a guy who looks like an accountant? Quite often I suspect. Similarly, some of the martial arts folks over here joke that, when you visit the dojo, don't worry about the young punk with all the muscles; the guy who can really take you apart is the old guy with a pot belly and the combover sitting at the back of the room.

[Waddy]

I don't think size ratios are an advantage and anyone that uses that excuse is full of BS. When fighting a big guy (300 lbs+), the only thing I have noticed is that the shield they are using may be huge, and I have more difficulty to swing around it, but that can be worked around.

However, I do think that lefties have more of an opportunity to practice against right-handers than vise versa.

I haven't done any scientific studies, but I believe there are more right handed fighters (sword and board) than lefties.

Unless the fighter is well experienced and thinking properly, fighting a good left hander is an awkward experience, especially when everyone in your home shire are all right handed and you don't get to practice against a leftie.

Am I making excuses if I lose against a left hander...heck no. Just saying who has more experience fighting who?

But like others said before, most of fighting is what is going on in your mind. I try and look at sword arms now before I start to fight.

[Murdock]

"A strong will can fule a frail phisique" Napoleon

but..

"Lack of conditioning makes cowards of us all"
Ken Shamrock.

A will without a weapon to put it behind is useless. Be that weapon an army or a trained body.

[Jean Paul de Sens]

Yah the belief that being left-handed gives an advantage is just a widespread myth...

heck even Major League Baseball has bought into it... what fools they are

To be serious, the advantage is not that you are left-handed, but that you fight right-handers as a left hander more often than vice versa.

As I've discussed with people before, the jump from "new fighter" to "mid-range" fighter happens quicker for lh's than for most rh's, but they still will have to put in the time and energy to take that step to the next level.

unless they are Timo.

[Dmitriy]

I tell you what, though...

If a guy is left-handed AND a giant, things get fairly scary.

See Sir Daniel Drake. 6'7", left-handed, and for a while his work used him to move things when their forklift (!!!) broke.

He tells a story of how his knight once decided to work on his technique, explained proper body mechanics to Dan, and had Dan hit the knight's shield, once. Then he looked at his shield and said, "Okay, Daniel... forget everything I told you today. "

-D

[JPT]

A couple of observations about size of fighters and left handed fighters.

Size;

first off, I'm not a "BIG" guy, 5'10" and call it 185#, but size, like coordination, balance, speed, vision, flexibility, etc. can be an advantage, it can also be a disadvantage. The critical elements are do you know A) how to use your advantages and B) how to minimize your opponents advantages.

If you know how to do these things, you will win more often than not regardless of what type of opponents you fight. Or as I have said on many occasions, figure out what your opponent wants to do, and force them to do something else. It's more about control than anything else.

Being big and strong gives one an advantage, so does being quick and flexible. Which will win, it all depends on who's in control.

A very wise man once told me that there are three elements to any fight, pace, initiative and range. For each that you control you swing the fight in your favor. Control two of the three and you will most likely win, control all three and there can be no doubt.

Lefties;

Fighting against your mirror is largely a matter of experience and practice. What's really funny is to watch two lefties who've never fought another leftie fight each other ... Now that's entertaining.

[broinnfinn]

I don't think size ratios are an advantage and anyone that uses that excuse is full of BS. When fighting a big guy (300 lbs+), the only thing I have noticed is that the shield they are using may be huge, and I have more difficulty to swing around it, but that can be worked around.

Well, I would agree that size alone isn't as much of an advantage as it appears, but it doesn't hurt either.

My husband, Grof Radu, (6' 9", 320 lb.) will freely admit that he gets away with a lot because with his SWORD he has a 7' reach. And, incidentally, he fights largely shieldless, so the big-shield issue is pretty non-existent here. But, it also has something to do with the fact that he is a lifetime athlete (former basketball player), and he moves very quickly for a big guy. Has it been easier for him than for me, his 5' 7", 150 lb wife? Absolutely. Admittedly, we are close to the extreme ends of the size factor.

Size isn't everything, but it DOES count for something.

Broinnfinn

[Asbjorn Johansen]

The drawback to being left handed is a lot of us plateau at a certain level, because there are smaller number of teachers who can adapt to the difference in shield side. Many (certainly not all) of the better left handed fighters tend to be self taught and very idiosyncratic in style, and are not necessarily the best teachers. I have found it is often hard to get specific critiques of what is going wrong in things like footwork or tempo, particularly as I have gotten a little better, compared with right-handers. That said there are many teachers who can adapt, they are just not as common.

Asbjorn

[Gaston de Vieuxchamps]

The drawback to being left handed is a lot of us plateau at a certain level, because there are smaller number of teachers who can adapt to the difference in shield side. Many (certainly not all) of the better left handed fighters tend to be self taught and very idiosyncratic in style, and are not necessarily the best teachers. I have found it is often hard to get specific critiques of what is going wrong in things like footwork or tempo, particularly as I have gotten a little better, compared with right-handers. That said there are many teachers who can adapt, they are just not as common.

Asbjorn

Excellent point! I would sadly add that a lot of lefties also reach a plateau because they never got good basics. Being able to have some early success with the typical lefty bread and butter tricks often means not developing good mechanics early.

The lack of good teachers for lefties is not to be ignored. My knight was Baldar and he is a great teacher with a proven and highly developed style. I don't fight anything like him. Not entirely true, when I fight right-handed S+S, I fight quite a bit like him, just not very well.

Large fighters can have these same issues. Often very strong fighters can start out hitting hard enough with poor technique. leter on they find they want a bit more power for certain shots and can't seem to achieve it without a lot of strainng because they are just muscling the blade like a newbie and never learned good mechanics. My 102lb squire had no choice but to learn good mechanics from the beginning and that has served her well.

Gaston

[Fearghus Macildubh]

Being a big guy 6foot4, 220lbs, I hate it when people chalk up the skill I've gained in SCA combat to some mystical gift from the god of bigness. Not that it doesn't have its advantages, but I had to learn how to use my size and reach in the best way. Strength and talent will only get you so far in any athletic activity, training and skill will take you the rest of the way.

[mordreth]

First of all, in an SCA group back home, I don't think I would be that big -- maybe 6'2" and 225lbs. Over here I'm admittedly pretty large

Or as I like to think of large guys "enhanced targeting zones"
Mordreth KSCA
All of 5 ft 8 in

[blackbow]

Actually there are days when I wish I were little and fast, like today. SCA heavy combat is turning into a game where a speedster with a soda straw can blow bubbles at you and look disgusted when you don't die. Maybe it's time to split heavy fighting into Cruiserweights & Heavyweights.

Regards,

Jonathan Blackbow