Full Plate in the SCA

SirSylvanar · Post by **SirSylvanar** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 8:32 pm

I was wondering if any of you who fight in the SCA fight in full plate. And for those that do could you tell me some of the things that you think are the advantages and some of the disadvantages. Thanks

Sylvanar

ironmongermisc · Post by **ironmongermisc** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:27 pm

I have nevr had full plate, but a guy in our shire bought a set of nice german style, w no lines or raise work.

He quit using it as he had to call blows by sound as he could not feel them, and everyone tended to wail on him because he could not feel it,,

Jared · Post by **Jared** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:01 am

I have a beautiful suit of Milanese-style plate that I trot out for the more formal Pas d'Armes and the like. At 90+ pounds, it puts me at a roughly 70 pound disadvantage over most of the fighters in Caid.

I love it; it's my dream suit and the one that my persona would wear. Unfortunately, as I discovered with a case of heat exhaustion one Queens Champion tourney, it's not practical at a temperature of 90 degrees plus in similar humidity, and it slows me down such that I get pounded like a tent stake by the boys in pads and cops.

Ironmonger has the right of it, too -- blow calibration is real difficult.

Jared

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:50 am

I regularly fight in a nice Milanese harness in the SCA. Sabatons, cased greaves, huge overlapping pauldrons, the whole deal. I just returned from a tournament last weekend in which I fought in it, in fact. I didn't do terribly badly at all.

It weighs right at about 65 pounds, and I had little trouble doing anything I wanted to in it. I do admit that I have to "call my blows" according to how they sound, not how they feel. I have the consolation of rock-solid certitude that 99% of what I get hit with wouldn't really have caused me any injury had the encounter been with sharp steel.

Still, it was a cold day, and I doubt I'd have done so well if it had been sixty degrees or more out...

Robert of Canterbury · Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:57 am

I fight in a lot of plate, but I wouldn't call it Full.

Cons, Weight. Affects transport, Endurance, Fighting speed.
mild Steel. Maintainance, dents & Cleaning.

Pros, I don't get Hurt. I'm slightly built and have little surplus to soak up blows, All of my bones are on the surface..

It Looks Swanky.(When Clean)

Things to be aware of, Calibration.

http://www.soton.ac.uk/~tpg/Photographs ... urne1.html

Me on the left.

Swabere · Post by **Swabere** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:35 pm

I have spent the last 4 or 5 years fighting in a Stainless/Leather rig. It offerend a ton of mobiliy and protection. I have just recently changed over to a full suit. a full Sallet (no grill) all the way to Sabatons. I love it. It is hot and not as easy to move in but I love the way it feels. My attitude seems to change when I wear full steel and it is more fun to fight in. I have never been one to fight just to rack up the most kills (although it is nice) and I tend to just love the atmosphere of period armour.

Joe

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:24 pm

Full plate is the shiznat.

Stay in shape, if you smoke, quit.

Its hot, but not so bad if you wear the correct undergarments.

Question...

To you folks who wear plate and have trouble calling blows... Do you have trouble calling head shots?

sedric · Post by **sedric** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:45 pm

I fight in 3/4 plate (no greives or sabatons and without the mail), most of it is 18G stainless, with a T- face barbute (12G stainless) I knock out a few dents once a year or so. It weighs around 40Lbs, (35 Lbs in the plackert only) I only over heat if I don't drink, steel radiates the heat. I have very little restrictions in movement, and very seldom get bruises . I haven't worn anything else for 3 years , so calibration isn't an issue.

SirSylvanar · Post by **SirSylvanar** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:07 pm

staying in shape isnt a problem since im an athlete

but as for heat would underarmor help cool that down?

Jared · Post by **Jared** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:43 pm

Broadway wrote:
To you folks who wear plate and have trouble calling blows... Do you have trouble calling head shots?

Nope. If it hits my head clean, it's good.

Here's an old page with my suit on it. I need to put up some new stuff.

http://home.earthlink.net/~firedrake/fi ... armor.html

Jared

hjalmr · Post by **hjalmr** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:44 pm

I have fought in almost full plate ( and plan on doing so again real soon) and I have found the following disadvantages:

1) Calibration trouble! I take almost anything that CLANGS!
2) Loss of footwork. I am a bouncy kind of fighter and with almost full plate I must be more of a technical, slow combinations type fighter.
3) It's HOT! Nuff said.
4) Armor bites! Nothing like recieving more wounds from your armor then your opponents. OUCH!!
5) HEY, WAIT UP! Yes, it's generally slower to run away from that army chasing you across the melee field.

hjalmr · Post by **hjalmr** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:49 pm

Broadway wrote:
Question...

To you folks who wear plate and have trouble calling blows... Do you have trouble calling head shots?

The problem is that most people do not start out in full plate and although they learn to calibrate with a helmet it takes time to realize that your actually getting hit somewhere else. Just like with the helmet, you learn calibration once you wear any kind of armor for a time.

Trevor · Post by **Trevor** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:00 pm

I got the opportunity to handle some 16th century MAximillian plate last week. I have to say it was a bit of a surprise.

It is NOT heavy. Not AT ALL. It weighed no more than my leather and aluminum suit. The helmet weighed at most, 6 lbs.

It bends very, very well. I don't see how it would restrict your movement very much.

I just wish that our armor was made half as well as this was. The steel on this ranged from 16 guage for the helmet to 22 guage for some of the arm plates. I didn't try to bend it (the curators would have skinned me) but there were cracks evident in the suit, but I can reasonably assume that it was made out of high carbon steel and well hardened.

I am looking forward to getting a suit of spring steel armor made by Jeffrey Hedgcock at Historic Enterprises. From what I've seen, he seems to be the only one making any of this in quantity. It should be worth it.

Swabere · Post by **Swabere** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:06 pm

I am definetely less bouncy with a full suit but I think it has helped me choose my targets a little wiser. The only problem I find with calling shots are when you are in close quarters with your fellow fighters. Sometimes I cant tell whether I have gotten hit or someone bumps into me. If I am ever in doubt I just die. I know how frustrating it is to hit someone and they dont go down...Plus the next time I run into that fighter I dont want to be the target of an overpowered shot. As much armour I have on there are still places where I am not covered.

Single combat is a little different though. I feel (and I felt this way before I had my full suit) if someone has a full suit the other person should have to get a clean strong shot (not overpowered). This is where calibration comes into play.

SirSylvanar · Post by **SirSylvanar** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:25 pm

Can you feel a good clean firm hit in plate?

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:30 pm

Sir Orlando is more than competitive in his spring steel harness. I can't wait to get real armour....
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/pas.html

Swabere · Post by **Swabere** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:38 pm

wow, those are some beautiful pics

seabrig · Post by **seabrig** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:53 pm

I would say I love my suit of steel. I feel like a medieval knight when I fight in it. my suit is just over 100lbs. but then again I'm a big guy. do I feel limited in movement? only when running. Do I think it hinders my calabration? Not at all. Most people who dont know me see all that steel and say "damm I better hit him hard" so I get my fair share of bruses even through the armour. Does it limit the amount of time I can fight, sometimes. only on the hotest of days do you cook a little, but then again who doesn't.

One bonus I have found is the charge and counter charge. More than once I have held my ground and found myself in the backfield because the enemy just went around me. I also find that most the time people who are even my size and not in full plate just bounce off me.

So if you are thinking about it then think about it for the right reasons. and dismiss the notion of being competetive. your body will get used to it and so will your style.

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:14 pm

It can get kinda heavy and kinda hot. But it protects you LOL !!!! I like that "safe and secure"feeling. Never had trouble with calibration, though I tend to take lighter shots than I should sometmes because of the same reasons swabere gave....Otto

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:11 pm

Vitus wrote:Sir Orlando is more than competitive in his spring steel harness. I can't wait to get real armour....
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/pas.html

Hey, I saw him at Gulf Wars!!! His suit is gorgeous... just absolutely fabulous... I was soooo jealous...

JP

iaenmor · Post by **iaenmor** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:04 pm

Yep, got a chance to talk to him about his armour there too. Answered all my questions and seemed like a real nice guy.

Loegaire mac Gilray · Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:37 pm

Joaquin wrote:It weighs right at about 65 pounds

That's the problem with using "period" suits in the SCA - weight-wise, they aren't period at all. When we saw the armour the Higgins Collection had on display, they had a brief list of facts on each suit.

Yours should weigh in at about 30 pounds w/o maille.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, eh?

-Loegaire

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:52 pm

Not necessarily. There were different amounts of protection required, and delivered, by different suits of armor. They were built to fulfill certain functions. A light lancer would wear lighter armor than a heavy cavalryman, or a tournament jouster, who would have very specialized equipment.

The armor of the Galiot de Genouilhac, 1527 weighed about 80# and was made for a man around 6' and 200#+. You only reduce the weight by about 9# if you remove the reinforcing breast and waist plate. It was absolutely a state-of-the-art suit.

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:52 am

30 pounds? This?

http://www.mediumaevum.com/josh/ArmorbyRalph%20045.jpg

No Way!

Good God, dude! Open an armour book!

I think 65 pounds is only *slightly* too heavy. The harness of Galeazzo D'Aarco in Churburg weighs around 63 or so, and it's missing its right arm and has no side or rear tassets. The 'Avant' Harness in Glasgow is what? 58 pounds?

How about all the pre-1500 harnesses in Mantova? They're all at least 50 pounds. And few if any of them have side or rear tassets, or even a rear fauld and sabatons.

Where do you get 30 pounds from?

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:12 am

From Threat Class 1a armor for the militia. :wink:

St. George · Post by **St. George** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:31 pm

properly fitted plate is great stuff, and shouldn't hinder you at all. Most guys in the SCA, however, wear crappy armor (let alone crappy plate).

Just make the right investments and get great gear, and plate can be great. Otherwise drop it.

Alaric

Reinhard · Post by **Reinhard** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:50 am

Your rig in my humble opinion, is a set of weapons, armour and fighting style.
I think you should not wear late 15th century plate and use a shield, rather a poll weapon and a long sword as a side arm (plus the obligatory dagger) would be better and more accurate.

The SCA's Heavy Combat involves light one handed weapons, totally unable to crack late 15th century plate unless they're a 'mace'.
Although I am loathe to say it, blows should be aimed at armpits, the groin and the neck.

My armour is a footman's rig (no sabatons, greaves and lighter spaulders) combined with a halberd, and in it I should really only fight others similiarly armed, this is my undertaking in the future. I will be making a padded jack, an open faced sallet and 'archer's' knees and elbows with some hidden steel reinforcement for SCA single stick use.

Karl Helweg · Post by **Karl Helweg** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:54 pm

I fight in a set of transitional plate. Bascinet, full arms, pauldrons, legs, greaves, and demi-sabutons with a coat-of-plates. I own a couple breast plates but they just don't let me move my torso enough (I'm thin chested and small shouldered for my frame) It's all stainless, about 15 years old and weighed 72# last time I flew with it. It's my second home.

Yes, I have to call many shots by sound (better than the alternative). I am old and fat but often surprise folks with how fast I can move. I do like pas d'Armes. Even if it were a greater handicap I didn't join the SCA to be a kydex kid. I recommend somewhat heavier authentic armour if not "full plate" to the new folks I'm training.

Full Plate in the SCA

Full Plate in the SCA

Full plate...in Caid

mmmmm steel

yes

wow

Almost full