Why the SCA can't change.

[InsaneIrish]

You stand back and point and laugh and cast disparogies(sp?)

disparagies.

at the SCA yet you offer no positive advice or options to help us change. You call us absurd yet in the same breath name those "who do strive to learn the ways of the time they claim to be representing," as good and worthy of your notice. You don't like the SCA, fine, don't play. The SCA will go on without you.

You're right, sir. The SCA will go on without those for whom accuracy is a priority. Good thing, too. That's as far as we agree.

There have been plenty of bits of advice, options, and information floated on this BB and elsewhere from reenactors to SCAdians. Why is it our fault that people like you don't want to listen? After all, there's only a few ways to accomplish the change of which we speak, but the intense inclusivity (anyone being welcomed as a full participant who makes any attempt to wear something that doesn't look like modern American street clothing, which seems to be what "makes an attempt at pre-17th century garb" means), coupled with intense animosity toward any attempt to heighten standards which would violate that inclusivity, negates any advice which we give.

For my part, I refuse to accept your ire for your refusal to fix your problem, even after I've given you the tools, methods, and encouragement.

I do not understand why people who have either tried the SCA and didn't like it or just looked into the SCA pasted it by, need to "throw stones" at us. I never here anything from people in the SCA about living history guys other than that they have higher standards than the SCA and that they look cool. On the other hand I hear about everything wrong with the SCA and how Living History is better when I talk to LH guys.

It's been said before, but I'll say it again: Not every LHer is like that. In fact, I know very, very few who have such a lack of social skill to say such a thing. All the LHers I know say how the SCA is perfect for what it is. We just get our knickers in a twist when someone equates our hobbies (the SCA and LH), because they are different, to a very marked extent. Is one better than the other? No, not in the grand sense. We both fill different niches, that's all.

Brewer I think we miss understand each other. My post was directed AT Durin, not Living history/re-enactment in general. If you wish to call it a flame, ok. I have been on this forum for quite a while. Not as long as some, but longer than most. I have noticed a trend, that trend being that there allways a group on this forum that casts down the SCA every chance they get. Durin's post was nothing but a flame and he got a flame in return. I did not mean to encompase all of LH and re-enactment in that post. I know that many have offered help from the outside. I have taken advantage of that offer many times. Your right, it IS my Problem (my meaning I am part of the SCA and I need to help fix it, not others from the outside). And I do try, I am constantly working on getting my garb and rig and campsite looking more period. I also push those around me to better themselves as well. And because of a certian percentage "pushing" others along and SCA has grown by gigantic huge leaps and bounds since its conception. I know the SCA has a long way to go, and I am trying to help get it there. I also know the SCA will never be LH or re-enactment, that is good because I don't want to do those things. As you posted above the 2 hobbies are different.

Over the years I have seen the SCA down troden(sp?) by LH and re-enactment not every LH and re-enactment person and certianly not all the time but enough for me to take notice. I guess I am tired of hearing about it in my old age

[Alcyoneus]

I guess I am tired of hearing about it in my old age

Just how old are you? he asked while dulling his spoons...

[Abaddon]

And who judges the judges?

If you want something to change, dont bitch about it, start trying to change it. Change starts with the individual.

Easy to say.
But the problem is that change requires political power. Under the present system those who would seek change do not have any. And why would those with power wish to give power to those without, if it is only going to be used to upset the system? As I said earlier, before you can start any type of reform, one needs to change the nature of how the SCA bestows authority on its members. I guess one could simply splinter off and start a new group outside the SCA, but that is really a species of defeatism, or perhaps escapism. It also implies that the SCA has nothing to offer, nothing worth saving. And that's not true.

My greater purpose in posting the topic was not to say that the SCA is bad, but asking whether or not it could be made better. And I do not mean simply that it should encompass greater standards for its members, but that it should be a greater organization from the perspective of outsiders. As it stands right now the SCA is pretty self-serving and self-involved for a non-profit organization. I know a few baronies that routinely make appearances at charity events and help out local schools and such....but on the whole most demos are basically recruiting drives for the SCA itself and do not teach much that is worthwhile academically.
This in itself is not a criticism, but the fact is that many members of the SCA are too new to have adequately researched or developed their personas enough to give out accurate information to an outside audience about their chosen time period. And on the other end of the spectrum you have the guys who know so much and can talk in such detail about their personas, that they rapidly ascend into the stratosphere, up and over their audience's heads.
I do not know which scares off propestive newcomers more quickly, the embarassingly clueless, or the obsessively well-versed. Obsession scares people as much as ignorance, I think.
Most SCA displays are geared towards getting people interested in the SCA itself more than they really try to recreate history (which is supposedly the basis for the SCA), where as in a perfect world if you were interested in history, the SCA would be the perfect place to be.
The two would be synonomous.
I am not saying that we would have to be 100% accurate, but don't civil war groups re-enact key battles? Do we? I know we have wars that are named after historic battles, (the Battle of Hastings and so forth) but how many are staged accurately for the sake of a non-member audience?
Can the SCA really be termed a re-enactment group? What do we re-enact? That one time in history when a samurai and a norseman and a French musketeer met in a tavern? Sounds like the start of a bad joke.

There is always going to be internal strife in any organization and questions about the direction it should be going, but I would just like to see the SCA get some respect from the public. They deserve it. There are a lot of people, after all, who work very hard to exemplify the SCA "Ideal". Some people have taught themselves so much about history over the years that they could walk right into a university classroom and teach their chosen subject with no trouble at all. And they get sneered at when they tell people they are in the SCA. If the name of the group is recognized at all.

[ironmongermisc]

Easy to say.
But the problem is that change requires political power. Under the present system those who would seek change do not have any. And why would those with power wish to give power to those without, if it is only going to be used to upset the system? As I said earlier, before you can start any type of reform, one needs to change the nature of how the SCA bestows authority on its members. I guess one could simply splinter off and start a new group outside the SCA, but that is really a species of defeatism, or perhaps escapism. It also implies that the SCA has nothing to offer, nothing worth saving. And that's not true.

********************************************

Even change from within in near impossible, which was the whole premise of what i tried to do,, it is set up so that really very little can be done in the time a Crown has,, it took me six!! riegns to get a Brewer's Guild going, and only then because the new Crown was one previously when I was trying..

[Guest]

it took me six!! riegns to get a Brewer's Guild going,

I guess the question is, do you think it would have taken more or less if you weren't pretending to be a laurel at the time?

[Kenwrec Wulfe]

In part, yes. You need the person (people) in power to officiate the change. HOWEVER, if the majority of the populous is demanding (by voice or action) that a change be made, that power can make the change or be molled over and the change with happen. In the SCA, power changes hands every 6 months. EVERY 6 MONTHS. That is often enough that if those wanting a shift in historical accuracy across the board (for the better) this change could be affected and effective within 2 years (given everything went well.) Reality would dictate that it would take longer, because NOTHING ever goes exactly to plan. Altantia has started that change. Hopefully other royals will continue the theme and this will ripple to other kingdoms. I know that people in my group are building our level (and our numbers!) and have received compliments to that. Change is happening, it is just going slower than it should.

[freiman the minstrel]

Easy to say.
But the problem is that change requires political power. Under the present system those who would seek change do not have any. And why would those with power wish to give power to those without, if it is only going to be used to upset the system? As I said earlier, before you can start any type of reform, one needs to change the nature of how the SCA bestows authority on its members. I guess one could simply splinter off and start a new group outside the SCA, but that is really a species of defeatism, or perhaps escapism. It also implies that the SCA has nothing to offer, nothing worth saving. And that's not true.

Oh, I hate this.

IMM, I am still quite chapped at you. I may not get over it. I am not positive that I completely want to. I think that you are showing a real insight here.

There IS a real "in group" aspect of the SCA. This, I think, is a natural result of the system. In the individual peerages, most of the folks who are doing stuff tend to know one another. They can at least work together, at a basic level. They are also bound together with shared experiences, and shared circumstances. They have a very strong voice in the decision of who becomes part of their particular peerage. If you take the peerage as a whole, they are completely in charge of admission to the in group. It seems inevitable that a sort of in group would form.

And the uglier side of "in groups" shows up appallingly frequently as well. I know people who have been badly misused, and I bet that almost everyone here does as well. It seems that everytime that a (for want of a better term) sucker gets wise to the fact that this is happening to them, there is a new newbie right behind them saying "Please approve of me." There is a certain type of person who will take advantage of them everytime, discarding the used doormat for the new.

When viewed from this particular angle of cynicism, choosing the king by crown tourney seems positively egalitarian. In the SCA, Royalty is taken, on the field of honor, all the other honors that the SCA awards structure can give are "awarded", "bestowed" or "recognised".

(Please note that I am not quite this cynical and bitter, but I do know what the view from there looks like.)

freiman the minstrel

[James B.]

I respect your opinion so I respectfully ask you to name me a dozen living history organizations that have superior numbers to the SCA, a dozen LH organizations that have as many local chapters.

I don't think there is one large organization as big as the SCA but there are more higher end ACW reenactors that SCA people in the United States and they have events larger than Pennsic.

Just a thought.

Personally as far as Atlantia goes I feel the guys in charge are the ones trying to enact change, I applaud their efforts. The quality of the kingdom has increased greatly since my first event almost 3 years ago.

[Gaston de Vieuxchamps]

Even change from within in near impossible, which was the whole premise of what i tried to do,, it is set up so that really very little can be done in the time a Crown has,, it took me six!! riegns to get a Brewer's Guild going, and only then because the new Crown was one previously when I was trying..

Now I know who you are.

As two of those crowns I have to say that your utter refusal to honor even the most basic of SCA conventions in your proposed charter was the reason it took six reigns. You submitted a proposal and were given commentary on needed revisions. Rather than revise and re-submit, you merely sat on the charter unchanged until the next crown and then the next, hoping to get the answer you wanted. You submitted the same charter to me on two different reigns (hoping I had forgotten??).

You are man who brags about lying and cheating in the SCA. You pretended to hold a rank that others achieve through hard work and dedication and that is why you are no longer welcome. Should anyone therefore really take your commentary on the SCA seriously?

[jester]

Historical authenticity is not one of the goals of the SCA.

We recreate aspects of the Middle Ages and we leave the choice of exactly which aspects up to each individual participant.

The bad points of our power structure are bad points found in any large group. Changing our power structure will not get rid of most of these bad points.

[Cuan]

Gaston:

I say, old man, well struck indeed! Can you just hold him there while I back the car over him?

What a nuke! Definitely the best of 2004. Kudos to you, sir.

Cuan
(A knuckle dragging knight, duke, pelican oppressor of the people type who fears all change and any hint of power sharing with a brewers guild)

[Jonny Deuteronomy]

Historical authenticity is not one of the goals of the SCA.

We recreate aspects of the Middle Ages and we leave the choice of exactly which aspects up to each individual participant.

The bad points of our power structure are bad points found in any large group. Changing our power structure will not get rid of most of these bad points.

friggin' conformist

[ironmongermisc]

it took me six!! riegns to get a Brewer's Guild going,

I guess the question is, do you think it would have taken more or less if you weren't pretending to be a laurel at the time?

It would have taken MORE if I was not thought of as a Peer at the time as it was three years later when it ended.

[ironmongermisc]

Easy to say.
But the problem is that change requires political power. Under the present system those who would seek change do not have any. And why would those with power wish to give power to those without, if it is only going to be used to upset the system? As I said earlier, before you can start any type of reform, one needs to change the nature of how the SCA bestows authority on its members. I guess one could simply splinter off and start a new group outside the SCA, but that is really a species of defeatism, or perhaps escapism. It also implies that the SCA has nothing to offer, nothing worth saving. And that's not true.

Oh, I hate this.

IMM, I am still quite chapped at you. I may not get over it. I am not positive that I completely want to. I think that you are showing a real insight here.

Uhhh, that's the qoute from someone else I added onto after,, my part is under the *******

[ironmongermisc]

Even change from within in near impossible, which was the whole premise of what i tried to do,, it is set up so that really very little can be done in the time a Crown has,, it took me six!! riegns to get a Brewer's Guild going, and only then because the new Crown was one previously when I was trying..

Now I know who you are.

As two of those crowns I have to say that your utter refusal to honor even the most basic of SCA conventions in your proposed charter was the reason it took six reigns. You submitted a proposal and were given commentary on needed revisions. Rather than revise and re-submit, you merely sat on the charter unchanged until the next crown and then the next, hoping to get the answer you wanted. You submitted the same charter to me on two different reigns (hoping I had forgotten??).

You are man who brags about lying and cheating in the SCA. You pretended to hold a rank that others achieve through hard work and dedication and that is why you are no longer welcome. Should anyone therefore really take your commentary on the SCA seriously?

every riegn I made suggested changes and then it was back to it's origunal form almost.

As for my commentary, does the truth hurt? You well know what I was talking about with the whole basket situations, that's what I was commenting on.

[ironmongermisc]

Gaston:

I say, old man, well struck indeed! Can you just hold him there while I back the car over him?

What a nuke! Definitely the best of 2004. Kudos to you, sir.

Cuan
(A knuckle dragging knight, duke, pelican oppressor of the people type who fears all change and any hint of power sharing with a brewers guild)

Which only goes more to show the stick jock mentality the SCA has,,,

[ironmongermisc]

As you all can see from the commentaries just how fossilized and strataed the SCA conventional mind is,, all I ever get from anyone with any rank is "Bad Ironmongermisc', "Evil Ironmongermisc' etc for what doing what I did.

Where as the 'common' people care why I did it.. i have letters to prove it.

Yes I lied, but I never cheated. Unless you count using my rank to get thinks done as cheating,,,

I wish I could go more into detail but my settlement w the SCA Inc. forbids it.

[Gaston de Vieuxchamps]

every riegn I made suggested changes and then it was back to it's origunal form almost..

Pure BS, which you are well known for. You didn't make any of the changes discussed. You had it set up so that people could call themselves "apprentices" and "masters" without earning them and even had a retroactive point system for becoming a "master" in the guild that would let you and a few of your buddie retroactively get credit a call yourselves masters from day one. You submitted the EXACT same charter to oue successors and they almost approved until I sat down and read it with them. They then presented you with the same changes I did and you pretended to have never heard of such a thing.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

As for my commentary, does the truth hurt? You well know what I was talking about with the whole basket situations, that's what I was commenting on.

I have no idea what basket situations you are talking about. Guess I need to go back and read through all your posts (not tonight).

You can seriously try to say that you never cheated after publicly admitting, nay bragging, that you entered projects in Art/Sci in which the actual creators of the projects were falsified?

In your parting shots you stated that there was a knight and a pelican that were also fakes like yourself--for the express purpose of sewing mistrust and chaos.

After you got caught in your lies, you made more lies about being a part of some expose as you motivation for your lies. You fabricated a whole conspiracy and mocked us all again and again.

"The 'common' people?" Please, you hurt more non-peers than peers and at least as many of those 'common' people wish ill upon you. If you really understood, I doubt you would show up on the radar at all.

Liar. Cheater. Miscreant. Scoundrel. Say what you will. At the end of the day you are still a very sad, sad person.

[dukelogan]

gaston,

i fear he will never get it. his world consists of claims but no substance. liars are like that. they speak but dont act. from what he says he would have been a laurel if he cared or some such shit. from what i have heard his work is, and was, ok but not masterful. either way he is a liar. and liars suck. i hope he finds his snake (if he hasnt) only because i hate thieves too. but i dont know what you can accomplish arguing with someone that has no concept of reality.

regards
logan

every riegn I made suggested changes and then it was back to it's origunal form almost..

Pure BS, which you are well known for. You didn't make any of the changes discussed. You had it set up so that people could call themselves "apprentices" and "masters" without earning them and even had a retroactive point system for becoming a "master" in the guild that would let you and a few of your buddie retroactively get credit a call yourselves masters from day one. You submitted the EXACT same charter to oue successors and they almost approved until I sat down and read it with them. They then presented you with the same changes I did and you pretended to have never heard of such a thing.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

As for my commentary, does the truth hurt? You well know what I was talking about with the whole basket situations, that's what I was commenting on.

I have no idea what basket situations you are talking about. Guess I need to go back and read through all your posts (not tonight).

You can seriously try to say that you never cheated after publicly admitting, nay bragging, that you entered projects in Art/Sci in which the actual creators of the projects were falsified?

In your parting shots you stated that there was a knight and a pelican that were also fakes like yourself--for the express purpose of sewing mistrust and chaos.

After you got caught in your lies, you made more lies about being a part of some expose as you motivation for your lies. You fabricated a whole conspiracy and mocked us all again and again.

"The 'common' people?" Please, you hurt more non-peers than peers and at least as many of those 'common' people wish ill upon you. If you really understood, I doubt you would show up on the radar at all.

Liar. Cheater. Miscreant. Scoundrel. Say what you will. At the end of the day you are still a very sad, sad person.

[Gaston de Vieuxchamps]

Then you know very little of your own Kingdom your Grace, when I was in it was quite the common practice to demand works from apprentices and fellow Laurels to fill those tons of gift baskets you and other Royals recieved and gave away to other Royals. One summer I donated like some 72 bottles of mead ro fill baskets for Gulf Wars, Pennsic and Crown list.

Oh THERE it is. What, did some brute squad come and shake you down for mead? Please. No one is ever _forced_ to do anything in this club.

72 bottle of mead? Hell, Thurwulf has donated more mead than that to a single party, and HE didn't ask for anything in return. We all give to this society, that's how it works. Every royal peer in the kingdom has given time, works, and cold hard cash to keep things going. Lets see, this month alone for me--$20 for booze for known world party, $20 for Valhala party, time and money for spear tournament prizes, weapons and supplies for making weapons donated--about $50 and 6 hours, armouring for others for free--about 15 hours, teaching fighting 4+ hours, nearly 30 DVDs given away... I'm sure there's more but it's a tough month, nearing the end of the semester and all so it's less than typical. I'm not that generous. Baldar, that's a generous guy. I couldn't even begin to add up what he's given away in the last year, much less the last 20. You wouldn't know anything about all that. You were too busy plotting and conspiring and trying to cury favor for your own agenda. Why did you "donate" 72 bottle if you didn't want to? Were you hoping to get special treatment in return? Maybe get some awards for your minions?

You just don't get this club at all. You have no idea how it works or why decent people play in it. You are not a decent person and thus cannot understand the workings and motivations of decent people.

"Truth hurts?" No, I have nothing to fear from truth. You wouldn't know truth if you were standing knee deep in it.

[Gaston de Vieuxchamps]

gaston,

(SNIP) but i dont know what you can accomplish arguing with someone that has no concept of reality.

Good point. I'll try to remember that.

[ironmongermisc]

You do not understand from my side or are willing to.

I quit the Society a loong time go for the same reasons that started this thread, not what it has become now.

That it will not change nor want to change. And that it is run by fighters, for fighters mostly, with the armor being made more and more sport than historic.

If you read or have read, I entered my art sci stuff under my name, and I also created items that someone else entered under thiers. I cannot elaborate further as it would violate my settlement w the SCA.

My earliest memory of you,Gaston, was at a fighter practice when I first moved to Tallahasse and you were fighting a gentleman who became so furious at your lack of calling leg blows he stormed off the field, and later you had the audacity to complain about him creasing your thigh armor...


Some people cant afford to donate but are asked to, pressured to by thier Masters/Peers what have you in order to fill those baskets and parties. I saw it .

Sh*t. some people can't afford to make trhe 4 or so 'seen and be seen' Kingdom events ( Crown lists/Coronation), and before you say that they cant afford it so why play? The SCa used to be a poor man's game, and just because they are economically challenged, they should be discriminated against?

Heck my housemate could not afford to donate any scrolls or illuminations she does for the Kingdom unless the materials were being donated by others, and that's the only she could do it.

As far as I am concerned, no matter what I say your answer will be "Liar Liar etc",, sarcasm is the refuge of a defeated wit. And you are a Duke and one of the 'elite' so your best interest is to keep the staus quo.

To the SCA I am like a cast out Jehovah's Witness, I do not exist , I do not hold up to thier ideals they preach, but what they preach is lies and hypocrisy . It's not how hard you work ( mostly), it's who you know and what you do for them.
The 'Dream' is dead for many people. And that's whar scares trhe SCA

[ironmongermisc]

Duke Logan;

Hugo was returned to me by Pasco County Sherrif's officers two months after he was taken.

The thief was caught trying to sell him at a pet store, and his trial comes up in August, and the DA says he willprob plea out.

[Tom Knighton]

I'm going to chime in here and put in MY two cents worth.

I am NOT one of the SCA elite. I probably never will be. I don't really give a damn either.

I have NEVER seen nor heard of ANY pressure put on ANYONE to donate anything. I have seen requests made, but I've also seen people say that they couldn't do it and NOTHING BAD HAPPEN. Hell, I've seen those same people get awards shortly after.

ironmongermisc, you lied about you being a laurel. That is pretty much a well documented fact. Why should anyone accept what you say as fact? You are a documented liar. You say Gaston blew off leg shots? That's wierd, because *I* have seen him fight and take PLENTY of them. I know folks who used to play in Tallahasee all the time and I don't recall EVER having heard tell of Duke Gaston (pre-Duke days) not calling shots. Instead of just letting things go, you have to sit there and say negative things about a man. Ok, true or not, no one cares. YOU, sir, are the one known to all the SCA as a liar. Bear that in mind.

You want to chalk this all up to the SCA elite, so be it. I really don't give a damn what you think. Of all the opinions in the world that matter to me, a liars isn't even on the list.

Bran

[dukelogan]

kill him. dont let him go to trial. just kill him.

glad to hear that some guy at the pet store had enough character to call the cops and get him back to you. i recently had someone break into my workshop and steal $1100 worth of my tools. he then got caught while in someone elses home stealing. he is in jail now and is going to be in court soon. he sold my stuff to a pawn shop for $95 and they (miraculously) sold it before the police got there. he is a crack addict and will just get probation. the pawn shop sold my stuff for profit and owes me nothing. the system told me im basically screwed and that i should have had insurance.

insurance? wtf is that excuse? anyway, i hope he gets out soon. im willing to take the hit for my actions towards him.



glad the snake is back with you. fucking thieves piss me off. in the sca i think youre a scum bag and im glad you got booted. i dont know you in the real world but i did feel you cared about your herp and i can relate to that. the sca isnt that important to me but the welfare of any animal, herps too, is. i say kill the guy but that probably isnt a good idea for you.

take care of whatever you need to so that i doesnt happen again. im sure you will so that is more a statement of encouragement than anything else.

regards
logan

Duke Logan;

Hugo was returned to me by Pasco County Sherrif's officers two months after he was taken.

The thief was caught trying to sell him at a pet store, and his trial comes up in August, and the DA says he willprob plea out.

[Gaston de Vieuxchamps]

My earliest memory of you,Gaston, was at a fighter practice when I first moved to Tallahasse and you were fighting a gentleman who became so furious at your lack of calling leg blows he stormed off the field, and later you had the audacity to complain about him creasing your thigh armor...

The only thing worse than a liar is a smart liar. Thank goodness you aren't one of those. If you were smart and wanted to lash out at me there is plenty of material to work with. I am often brash and overly harsh. There are plenty who would say that I am also aloof or conceited. I broke a guys arm once and some people consider me excessive. Hell, I was an unbelted duke. How many of those do you know? Was it because I was a "party-liner" or yes man who is chummy with the SCA elite? Hardly.

There's plenty you could say about me and I'm sure a certain percent of people would rally to it. But you aren't going to get very far with calling me a rhino. Even my worst detractors won't buy that line of crap.

Yep, I'm glad you aren't smart or you would be a lot more dangerous.

PS- you say you didn't cheat, but then you say you entered your work in Art/sci with other people's names on it. Which is it? You cheated or you didn't.

Like any other large group, there are people who get oppressed in the SCA. People who are unfairly persecuted for one reason or another or who just don't fit in with the "powers that be" and suffer for it. Then there are assholes who finally get what they deserve. You were never any category but the last one. Only a complete lack of shame would allow you to do what you have done and that same character flaw allows you to continue to write about the SCA as if you cared and then hide behind some supposed legal BS.

[Rev. George]

If you read or have read, I entered my art sci stuff under my name, and I also created items that someone else entered under thiers. I cannot elaborate further as it would violate my settlement w the SCA.

Since this information comes from my reccolection before this settlement, here's the story as i understood it:

Person A (ironmonger) Makes up a batch of mead. takes 2 bottles. Enters 1 under his (assumed) name, the other under a buddies.

"blind, non partisan judging" revealed that the application of a laurels name makes mead more platible/period, Even though they were the same mead.

sounds suspicious to me.

-+G

[Russ Mitchell]

I've watched this thread go on... and I fail to see what the issue is regarding respect from non-SCA people. Since I fit that description, here's my two cents.

My experience with the SCA, and SCA people. It's a geeky game played by geeky people, many of whom are really, really into medieval stuff, the rest of whom are folks who think that fighting with swords and stuff is seriously cool. The scholarship itself is generally not taken too seriously, although there are folks in it who are doing first-rate scholarly work... and the gist is that it lets you play with what happens when a bunch of anachronistic stuff happens all together (while bopping each other in the head), like when my sifu, in his former life constantly scandalized the folks with the 14th-century western personas with his dual-belief persona from Novgorod, known to say short prayers to "Saint Snow Yak, steed of God."

Really. Outside of participants tweaking things here and there, which is their own business, why on earth would the SCA need to change?

[Captain Jamie]

Russ I am not sure.

Maybe I missed something somewhere but can any body list activities that they are not allowed to do in the SCA because it is the SCA? I know of a few such as fight with (non-fencing) steel weapons and actually firing the matchlock or hackbut that you have been carrying. Anything besides that? Are most of the complaints really of the "this offends my eye" type or are there real issues here? Maybe I need to go over this thread again I seem to have lost the point of it.

Captain Jamie

[Gaston de Vieuxchamps]

I've watched this thread go on... and I fail to see what the issue is regarding respect from non-SCA people. Since I fit that description, here's my two cents.

My experience with the SCA, and SCA people. It's a geeky game played by geeky people, many of whom are really, really into medieval stuff, the rest of whom are folks who think that fighting with swords and stuff is seriously cool. The scholarship itself is generally not taken too seriously, although there are folks in it who are doing first-rate scholarly work... and the gist is that it lets you play with what happens when a bunch of anachronistic stuff happens all together (while bopping each other in the head), like when my sifu, in his former life constantly scandalized the folks with the 14th-century western personas with his dual-belief persona from Novgorod, known to say short prayers to "Saint Snow Yak, steed of God."

Really. Outside of participants tweaking things here and there, which is their own business, why on earth would the SCA need to change?

Umm, yeah. That's pretty much us in a nutshell.

[Rev. George]

Gaston: Terribly off topic, but if you were at GW, could you e-mail me off board?

-+G

[James the Baker]

Just treading in lightly here.Captain Jamie,Doesn't the sca have some sort of prohibition against historical combat techniques?I am not entirely certain but I think I remember reading something about a historical combat series that would no longer be allowed for some reason.
James

[Tom Knighton]

The Society Earl Marshal has banned the teaching of Historical Swordsmanship techniques. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. It has something to do with the fact that grappling is allowed in works like Fiore and he doesn't think people will NOT grapple if they learn that.

God only knows WHY though. I know we have a serious problem with folk who train in eastern martial arts kicking people in the face

Bran

[Ceddie]

My earliest memory of you,Gaston, was at a fighter practice when I first moved to Tallahasse and you were fighting a gentleman who became so furious at your lack of calling leg blows he stormed off the field, and later you had the audacity to complain about him creasing your thigh armor...

When did you live in Tallahassee?

[Kenwrec Wulfe]

Good one Bran...
almost got the coffee...

almost.

Now on to the issue.

Seems to me that there is a large amount of animosity here. Though it is not my thread, I would ask that it be brought back to the original statement and discussed from there. It seems to have degenerated into a insult and argument match.

Instead, lets talk about what we can initate here TO change the SCA for the better. There are a number of peers here on the board. Simply having that, there is societal influence. Why dont we discuss the things we can do to make it better and how we can spread the change?

I say we begin the Society for Creative Anacronysm's Historical Accuracy Movement (the SCA HAM ) We could even use the term "HAM it up!"
Can you imagine... if 50 people a day, I say, 50 PEOPLE A DAY walked in lookin for better period stuff? They may consider it a MOVEMENT!