Need help for press

Trystan Adler · Post by **Trystan Adler** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 2:22 pm

Good Gentles,
I have had a lot of practice dishing and such and wish to try my hand at building my own press for simple dishing. I am looking for words of wisdom and possible connections for plans of a working design. I am trying to build quite a few sets of armour for new fighters and figure this would save some time. I understand that this will probably stretch the metal thin in some areas.
Thank you for your inputs and time.

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Predictablity Kills!
Trystan Adler

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 4:29 pm

I've never seen a dishing press... by the time you made the press, you could have made all the helms and such you need.

Patrick Thaden · Post by **Patrick Thaden** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 10:51 pm

I actually talked with a company that did press work to see what kind of tonnage would be needed for that kind of work. They told me "oh we have some 200 ton presses they should work". They said if I got a toolmaker to cut the dies they would do it for change per piece basically. I haven't been able to find anywhere that would give the needed numbers to figure the tonnage for something like that. If you have the money for making something like that, I would say make the dies to fit a local companys press and have them do it for you.

Trystan Adler · Post by **Trystan Adler** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 5:19 am

Kind Sirs,
Thank you for your inputs. There is a local company with the presses and I may have a connection for making dies. I appeciate your information and comments.

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Predictablity Kills!
Trystan Adler

Daniel Elis · Post by **Daniel Elis** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 8:22 am

I also was wondering about using a press.I was showing the patterns and explaing the items to my father and he was thinking of making dies to use in a press.He is retired so this would be great for him.
Anyways...
What drawbacks or advantages are there for using a press?
Would there be a market for precut helm pieces?
Any other comments on this?

Daniel

[This message has been edited by Daniel Elis (edited 08-10-2001).]

Gundo · Post by **Gundo** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 10:28 am

Well, since I run about 500 tons worth of presses in my production line [at my day job], I think I know enough to answer this.

It depends.

If you want to form a cop or helm half ina single stroke, you're going to need at least a 200 ton press, and if you pay the going rate, the die will run you at the very least $5000. I would actually expect the die to cost a lot more, because I am convinced that you couldn't do it in one stroke. The metal would not only stretch too thin, it'd crack. I think you'd need at least a four-station progressive die, and I bet you couldn't get that built for less than 15k.

But I don't think you have any real need to do it one stroke. You could spend a lot less on a power hammer, trip hammer, or treadle hammer and some very simple dies. It still wouldn't be worth doing unless you're going into the business.

Your best option, IMO, is to make a bulk purchase from Ron Simmons.

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Gundobad,
Wise Ogre Armory
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Sanity is very rare. Every man almost, and every woman, has a dash of madness - R.W. Emerson

A position worth taking, is worth defending.

jgalak · Post by **jgalak** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 11:12 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Gundo:
Your best option, IMO, is to make a bulk purchase from Ron Simmons.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another option is to talk to Ron Simmons about this. He posted a few months ago about wanting to sell a copy of his machine (he dishes with some sort of machine, not sure what it is), patterns, etc., in order to have more armorers out there that can do what he does. Sort of a franchise thing (not really, I don't think he expects continuing payments after the initial purchase).

He mentioned a price, but I don't recall it. Something in the single-digit thousands.

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Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak

Daniel Elis · Post by **Daniel Elis** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 12:09 pm

building the dies are no problem...we have the machenry/or access to the machinery to make anything..
I was basically wondering if
a) it had been done/is done
b) drawbacks to pressed instead of good ole fashioned elbow grease hammering
c)the thought on unassembled helms for sale

I am asking for my father who has a intrest in this...I myself am going for the ole hammer act

...it seems alot simpler

Daniel

Garridan · Post by **Garridan** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 1:27 pm

Ron uses a power hammer, IIRC.

Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 2:37 pm

Could you do the pressing hot? seems like it would be a lot less stressful to the material that way...

-+g

Daniel Elis · Post by **Daniel Elis** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 2:44 pm

would you have to retemper it after heating?

Daniel

Gundo · Post by **Gundo** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 3:53 pm

If you're going to be pressing out pieces, your raw material had damn well better not be tempered. In fact, if isn't annealed or at least normalized, you might as just throw your die off a cliff as put it in a 250-ton press. You'd get about the same amount of use out of it. Heat treatment is something you do after your product is formed.

Are you [or rather your dad] a mechanical/materials engineer? Designing progressive dies is a serious skill,just like building them, and you can't half-ass either one. Just because you can build to a set of prints doesn't mean you can originate a good print. I'm not ragging on you, I'm just familiar with the technology involved. A broken die can kill the operator of the press.

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Gundobad,
Wise Ogre Armory
Wise Ogre Pic of the Day
Wise Ogre Armory T-shirts & more

Sanity is very rare. Every man almost, and every woman, has a dash of madness - R.W. Emerson

A position worth taking, is worth defending.

Krag · Post by **Krag** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 5:10 pm

I second the above. I used to operate a hydraulic brake. The dies are made with really tight tolerances. I've seen a set of couplings explode on this machine due to a mis-alignment of the dies. It's not the part that you worry about with low tolerance dies...it's the machine and the operator!

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Krag von Berghen
KragAxe Armoury

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Daniel Elis · Post by **Daniel Elis** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:10 pm

(I would have replyed sooner but they removed access at work)
Thank you for your concern

yes he (and I) have been machining for years...(lathe..brideport..etc) and a friend of dads has so much more equipment than us and likes to tinker around on the side (he has a machine shop with the latest stuff *drool*) so I'm sure he will input his ideas...and he has made many multi stage dies

again thank you for your concern!

Daniel