Sacbut (music topic)

Waddy · Post by **Waddy** » Wed May 05, 2004 12:07 pm

For the musically inclined on this board, I was wondering if you knew where I could find a more authentic style Sacbut for sale, if they are even made now. Would it be cost prohibitive to buy one, in other words, should I say 'screw it' and play a modern trombone anyways.

I have played trombone, but from what I have heard, it doesnt seem period for a medieval ensemble.

I can only read bass clef, so I was wondering also if there was an alternate instrument, similar to the sound of a baritone, that I could play as well and call it 'period."

Any period bass instrument ideas are appreciated. No woodwinds please.

Thanks.

Karen Larsdatter · Post by **Karen Larsdatter** » Wed May 05, 2004 1:11 pm

Found some online stores that carry sackbuts: Antique Sound Workshop, John Webb, Lark in the Morning, and The Early Music Shop.

Friends and Relations: The Sackbut discusses the history of the instrument, and suggests some manufacturers for a related 15th century slide trumpet, and describes reproduction sackbuts and related instruments from other manufacturers as well.

(Where are you from? There's a historic brass workshop in the DC area every spring, but I think it's already come and gone for this year. You might also be interested in the Historic Brass Society.)

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Wed May 05, 2004 6:06 pm

I've played tenor sacbutt with the Virginia Tech Early Music Ensemble. The tone is quite a bit different, and it has more air resistance than a small bore trombone. In the next week or two, there should be an audio/video clip of me playing here: http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/

It was made in Europe but I dont recall where. VT also has an alto and bass, but I haven't played around with those.

Jacob

Waddy · Post by **Waddy** » Thu May 06, 2004 12:27 pm

Thanks for the links! However, no prices :sad:

I'm sure they are more expensive than a new modern instrument however.

I'm from around the Tallahassee, Florida area. I have been meaning to pick my horn back up, but so much stuff to do, so little time. I only see woodwinds in the local group here. I think it would be nice to get some brass going on day. Thanks again everyone.

Karen Larsdatter wrote:Found some online stores that carry sackbuts: Antique Sound Workshop, John Webb, Lark in the Morning, and The Early Music Shop.

Friends and Relations: The Sackbut discusses the history of the instrument, and suggests some manufacturers for a related 15th century slide trumpet, and describes reproduction sackbuts and related instruments from other manufacturers as well.

(Where are you from? There's a historic brass workshop in the DC area every spring, but I think it's already come and gone for this year. You might also be interested in the Historic Brass Society.)

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Thu May 06, 2004 1:34 pm

A few of those links do have prices. Generally you're looking at starting from $2-3,000 and going up from there. Expensive for a trombone, but not bad compared to a lot of instruments. Be glad you don't play something complex!

The sacbutt is more of a Renaissance instrument than a medieval one. ~15th century and later.

Another cool bass clef instrument to look into is the serpent. Man what a sound! No wonder they went out of style. :lol:

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Thu May 06, 2004 5:20 pm

I was also going to suggest a Serpent. This is the bass member of the cornett (or zink) family of instruments. To buy a decent reproduction is pretty spendy, but to make an acceptable substitute can be done for fairly cheap.

http://www.geocities.com/scottfranklinhall/tromar.html

This guy came up with a method of making serpents out of plywood. Wild.

http://www.simonchadwick.net/serpent/

This fellow made one and has a step-by-step on his site. One of these days, I am going to have to make one. Just because. But not today. Because the little kids are needing my attention just now...

-Patrick

Mark Walter · Post by **Mark Walter** » Thu May 06, 2004 7:12 pm

What a lot of people do is get a tenor trombone and have the bell cut down. It works reasonably well although the bore on most modern trombones is larger than an authentic sackbut. It's a lot cheaper than buying a real sackbut however.

Serpents and the cornett family really aren't medieval either. A slide trumpet would be the correct one medieval music, but they don't look like much fun to play. The whole instrument slides on the leadpipe for the mouthpiece. Move to fast when going back to first position and you might break your teeth :shock:

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:55 pm

I've never lost any teeth playing trombone, nor do I know anyone who has. I don't know why the early slide trumpet would make that any more likely. If you can get a spoon safely into your mouth each time you eat, you should be fine.

Jacob

Mark Walter · Post by **Mark Walter** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:35 am

Unlike a trombone where you are just moving a light slide with most of the instrument staying still with a slide trumpet the whole instrument except the mouthpiece is moved. Also on a trombone you move your slide 1 inch and the length of the instrument is changed by 2 inches because the slide doubles back. The slide on the slide trumpet is straight so to increase the length by 2 inches you have to move the whole instrument by 2 inches. So you have farther between positions and a much heavier thing to move. It makes for an awkward instrument to play because you have a lot of mass to move quickly around. Yes, it's an exaggeration to say you are going to break your teeth but having had someone bump the end of my trumpet while playing I know a little force is magnified when it's all concentrated on your mouthpiece. :cry:

Mark Walter · Post by **Mark Walter** » Wed May 12, 2004 12:18 pm

The York Waits recording of Music from the time of Richard III has some slide trumpet playing on it.

http://www.waits.org.uk/

This site has a picture of a slide trumpet at the bottom of the page.

http://www.ensembleoliphant.com/en/instruments.html

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:06 pm

I thought I'd dig this topic out again. i just checked and found that the video clip I made has been uploaded here: http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/

Sacbut is the first instrument under "S"

Also, since this post began I have made myself a serpent. I carved it in two halves, like many originals, but I used multiple sheets of plywood to make the blocks instead of solid wood. It looks much better than the various square or PVC versions I've seen on the internet, and probably wasn't much more effort. It just requires the willingness to work with hand tools instead of power tools. It still needs the finger holes to be drilled out. I'll try to post some pictures of it in progress and finished in a while.

Jacob

Sacbut (music topic)

Sacbut (music topic)

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