ARMA scholars Matt Anderson and Shane Smith have written a nice article on armoured combat that should be of interest of most of you. Article is A Brief Introduction to Armoured Longsword Combat.
Ran Pleasant
ARMA DFW
Article on Armoured Combat
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Shane Smith
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Asbjorn Johansen
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Shane,
Nice article, I think it was very effectively presented.
When you spar how do you handle the more dangerous throws and locks? My local group has been working with just getting to the initial stage of the throw/lock and halting the fight at that point, but I believe you folks have been doing this longer so I’m interested in your experiences.
Also, when you spar are you using steel weapons, wasters or some other safety weapons, or do you do some mix? If you are using steel how are you handling thrusts to the face and throat?
Nice article, I think it was very effectively presented.
When you spar how do you handle the more dangerous throws and locks? My local group has been working with just getting to the initial stage of the throw/lock and halting the fight at that point, but I believe you folks have been doing this longer so I’m interested in your experiences.
Also, when you spar are you using steel weapons, wasters or some other safety weapons, or do you do some mix? If you are using steel how are you handling thrusts to the face and throat?
Asbjorn
What would Ulrich Von Liechstenstein do?
In Modo Antiquo
Or, a demi-fleur-de-lis sable
www.historiccombat.org
What would Ulrich Von Liechstenstein do?
In Modo Antiquo
Or, a demi-fleur-de-lis sable
www.historiccombat.org
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Shane Smith
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Hi Asbjorn ,
We have no real trouble performing the throws in freeplay fairly safely. That said,I have personally suffered a minor shoulder tweek in freeplay with Matt when he performed a vicious wrenching lever that relieved me of my sword if I recall properly. We have also had a close call when Matt rushed me for a throw and I disarmed him during the attempt...We both went to the ground and I was attempting to get my hand under his visor to tap his eyeballs and he was attempting to get me in a lock.Our fellow armoured swordsman Joel Thompson broke us up with a nervous chuckle and a "Check that out!" .Matts sword blade was now facing him and it was run through the strap behind my knee and between it and my skin.That was close!!!
Armoured fencing with intent is incredibly dangerous! We use wasters for drills and even moderate to intense freeplay and we use steel the same. We wear our visors in free-fencing for safety reasons and even then,thrusts to the face cannot be attempted with steel as the techniques we are employing are designed to defeat the very armour protecting us. When thrusts to the face are on the schedule,wasters become the rule in the interest of safety. I have seen sword tips glance past eyeslots enough to know it is a bad idea for training puroposes with steel in the long term.
Best regards
We have no real trouble performing the throws in freeplay fairly safely. That said,I have personally suffered a minor shoulder tweek in freeplay with Matt when he performed a vicious wrenching lever that relieved me of my sword if I recall properly. We have also had a close call when Matt rushed me for a throw and I disarmed him during the attempt...We both went to the ground and I was attempting to get my hand under his visor to tap his eyeballs and he was attempting to get me in a lock.Our fellow armoured swordsman Joel Thompson broke us up with a nervous chuckle and a "Check that out!" .Matts sword blade was now facing him and it was run through the strap behind my knee and between it and my skin.That was close!!!
Armoured fencing with intent is incredibly dangerous! We use wasters for drills and even moderate to intense freeplay and we use steel the same. We wear our visors in free-fencing for safety reasons and even then,thrusts to the face cannot be attempted with steel as the techniques we are employing are designed to defeat the very armour protecting us. When thrusts to the face are on the schedule,wasters become the rule in the interest of safety. I have seen sword tips glance past eyeslots enough to know it is a bad idea for training puroposes with steel in the long term.
Best regards
I think that a big reason that throws, locks, grappling and the like works effectively in the ARMA system is because, while we try to fight with intent, there is no contest. There are no points to be scored, you know when you've been hit and thats it. I think that, for most of us, the safety does come before 'beating' our opponent. This past saturday, during longsword freeplay, my partner and I closed to grappling and I ended up flying over his body. As soon as my feet leave the ground, we both know the fight, if it was real, would be over as soon as I hit the ground. But instaid of following through with his full force on the throw, he eased up a bit and I hit with a mild crash as opposed to a major one. He got me. I know it , he knew it. The technique was great. We both had a laugh and went again. Trust and maturity.
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M S Anderson
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Good comments Shane and Allen.
Although we go at it in a pretty spirited way, and try to best each other, we also know when to let up and take it easy on the other guy (usually). the focus is on training, not "scoring". You can also take it easy on yourself by cooperating a bit. If Shane gets me in position for a throw, he's got me locked up, the leverage is there and I start to feel the force, I'll go with it, letting him throw me. To resist, although it might defeat the technique, will tweak your joints even worse. as long as you know how to fall (some prior martial arts experience helps) the impact with the ground is usually less risky than resisting. this way, we can take the technique to completion and continue the fight on the ground.
Wasters are safer, since they are less likely to slip between plates, through visors, etc. they do present problems however. They are rigid along the flat so unlike real swords, blade orientation during opposition and levering isn't critical (makes it easy to cheat). The thickness of wasters also makes it clumbsy or even impossible to perform certain techniques. Steel gives a more realistic experience, of course, but requires more control and caution.
Although we go at it in a pretty spirited way, and try to best each other, we also know when to let up and take it easy on the other guy (usually). the focus is on training, not "scoring". You can also take it easy on yourself by cooperating a bit. If Shane gets me in position for a throw, he's got me locked up, the leverage is there and I start to feel the force, I'll go with it, letting him throw me. To resist, although it might defeat the technique, will tweak your joints even worse. as long as you know how to fall (some prior martial arts experience helps) the impact with the ground is usually less risky than resisting. this way, we can take the technique to completion and continue the fight on the ground.
Wasters are safer, since they are less likely to slip between plates, through visors, etc. they do present problems however. They are rigid along the flat so unlike real swords, blade orientation during opposition and levering isn't critical (makes it easy to cheat). The thickness of wasters also makes it clumbsy or even impossible to perform certain techniques. Steel gives a more realistic experience, of course, but requires more control and caution.