Besagews

Djingis Khan · Post by **Djingis Khan** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:15 am

I have never made a piece of armour before, but I'm thinking of starting with a pair of early 14th century Besagews (which will be tied to my maille shirt). What is the most simple way to make them? Does anyone have any images of these Besagews?
Thanks

/Mikael

Rainald · Post by **Rainald** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:50 pm

Round seems to work well for me. I like to use your standard audio CD as a templet. It's perfectly round and the size works well.

Cut out of your choice of metal, dish slightly and add flourish as you wish. Here is a couple of example of one I use:

On the left:
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/r ... NGANG2.JPG

On both kits. On the left has a fluted star pattern, on the right there is a repousee brass lionish face riiveted inside the dish:
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/r ... ERYAN1.JPG

James ap Llywelyn · Post by **James ap Llywelyn** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:27 pm

I started with besegews as well. The CD is a good measure for size. I then used a T-square to marke a cross on them, I split the cross by eye and had lines to flute 8 lines into mine. I cut the outer edge into a scalloped edge that seemed to follow the lines of the flutes. I placed the besegew on the adge of a pick axe blade shoved pick end into a stump then beat each side of the flute with a light ballpein hammer. At this time I didnt know much about planishing, and didnt have a decent stake yet either, but here is the besegew before planishing. I dished each little "petal" as deep as I could get it, then raised the center point a bit on a polished metal spike point.
http://www.jamesandgwen.com/023.jpg
The rivet in the center is attached to a small tab of leather with two grommets in it for points.

James

Mike F · Post by **Mike F** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:41 pm

Hey, for something so simply made with no planishing, I love it! Good job.

Raymund · Post by **Raymund** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:13 am

On Gothic Eye (http://www.gothiceye.com) there are some early effigies with rondels:

de Bacon c.1320
Decorative edging and a "rivet" in the centre.
http://www.gothiceye.com/images/large/KN025-2.jpg

Sir William FitzRalph c.1323
Decorative edging and a "flower" in the centre.
http://www.gothiceye.com/images/large/KN027-2.jpg

Sir John de Creke c.1325
Lion face rondels, might be embossed or cuir bouille.
http://www.gothiceye.com/images/large/KN029-2.jpg

Sir John dÃ¢â‚¬â„¢Abernoun (d.1327)
Probably flat with an decorative edging. Points in the middle.
http://www.gothiceye.com/images/large/KN030-2.jpg

The question is whether the rondels on these effigies are metal or leather.

/R

Djingis Khan · Post by **Djingis Khan** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:21 pm

Thanks, do you think 2 mm mild steel will be okey?

James ap Llywelyn · Post by **James ap Llywelyn** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:19 pm

I buy my steel in the US, and use that standard, so Im not quite sure what gauge 2mm would work out too, but looking at my ruler (the side we dont use often enough here in the states) I think 2mm would be way more than needed for besegews. That looks like 14 or 12 gauge to me, but I have a bad eye for that sort of thing. Mine were made from the metal shelves in a wall locker. I would say they are 1mm thick. Or somewhere around 18 or 20 guage. This is very flimsy steel, can be bent by hand and cut with wiss aviation snips, but after putting the dishes into it, deep and small like they are, I can stand on it, supported at only the edge on some cinderblocks and it doesnt budge.

James