What killed errantry?

[Destichado]

"What is Thisbe, a wandering knight?"
Shakespeare -A midsummer Night's Dream


I suppose it's a 12th century thing, that romantic figure of the solitary, landless knight errant, wandering the countryside in search of adventure. For some reason or another, just when it became tres romantique, the practice ended -seemingly abruptly. I wouldn't know, it's out of my period. On one page of a history book you have knight errants wandering around being a drain on the economy, a threat to law and order and a general nuisance to civilised folk everywhere, and on the next... there's next to nothing -they're something you only hear about in the romances.

To those of you who specialize in the early and high middle ages: what happened? Were there new, more restrictive laws? Did nobles and the greater gentry begin to take poor knights into their service? Something entirely different??? I gather from reading romances -heck, even from Shakespeare!- that the practice was thought of highly. You'd think it would be more popular.

Did expense become an issue? From previous discussions, I take it that a respectable gentleman simply did not travel without certain amenities -tent, dining ware, several squires, and on and on and on... Suddenly, wandering aimlessly looks expensive, and stops looking much like errantry at all.

Or did it fade, and not actualy die out completely? Ulrich Von Lichtenstien and Jaques de Lalang (forgive me for brutalizing their names) come to mind as two widely traveled, relatively poor knights who made their way in the world with their prowess, much later in the middle ages.
I wouldn't call that "errantry", but then, it's not my period. Would you?

So we know they knew all about it, and we know they found the idea appealing... what stopped them?

[FrauHirsch]

Probably it was partially due to local laws, I know that later in the period, people required "papers" to travel in some areas. This was due to banditry.

But it may also have been in part due to the Plague...

-J

[HugoFuchs]

Except in regards for competing in tournaments, they got displaced in the fighting aspect by professional common soldiers. As well as social and legal restriction.

[Murdock]

Oswald?

[Destichado]

Oswald???


So is this one of those medieval mysteries? Or are there a host of reasons and nobody's sure where to start...???

[welshywelsh]

I think that Bastard Feudalism arrived on the scene pretty early on the continent in the middle ages, and the idea of 'knights errant' has very little basis in historical fact and finds its roots in the romances of the 12th century. Everybody answered to somebody higher up on the totem pole.
Jacques de Lailang was not a poor knight who wandered about looking for adventure, he was a tourneyer from a highly respected and relatively powerful noble family who held positions of authority within the Duke of Burgundy's government. He was also a rock star in his day. That's part of the problem: We don't have many accounts of the not-so-famous/not-so-affluent ('errant' if you must) knights who numbered amongst the men at arms of more influential knights (like the de Lailangs) in the high middle ages. But, we know that they were there and that they were the backbone of the smallest medieval tactical fighting unit, the lance.
In the later middle ages, there were several different levels of 'knighthood', but the idea of a landless and lordless knight is a contradiction in any age.

[chef de chambre]

I think that Bastard Feudalism arrived on the scene pretty early on the continent in the middle ages, and the idea of 'knights errant' has very little basis in historical fact and finds its roots in the romances of the 12th century. Everybody answered to somebody higher up on the totem pole.
Jacques de Lailang was not a poor knight who wandered about looking for adventure, he was a tourneyer from a highly respected and relatively powerful noble family who held positions of authority within the Duke of Burgundy's government. He was also a rock star in his day. That's part of the problem: We don't have many accounts of the not-so-famous/not-so-affluent ('errant' if you must) knights who numbered amongst the men at arms of more influential knights (like the de Lailangs) in the high middle ages. But, we know that they were there and that they were the backbone of the smallest medieval tactical fighting unit, the lance.
In the later middle ages, there were several different levels of 'knighthood', but the idea of a landless and lordless knight is a contradiction in any age.

There is no doubt that Henry has the right of it regarding this. I must say, I almost spewded coffee out my nose this morning when I read a description of Jaques de Lailang as being 'a somewhat poor knight' - (not to drag politics into it, but the comparative wealth and fame of these figures makes for an instantly understandable comparative). Jaques de Lailang is poor to The Croy family, or the Croy family are poor if compared to the duke of Burgundy - if you consider George Bush to be poor compared to John Kerry (20 mil versus 1 Billion), or John Kerry poor compared to Bill Gates. He was rich enough to support himself in a lifestyle and avocation considered fantastic and an oddity in his own time by his contemporary peers (most people couldn't aford to lark about ponds, or have artificial fountains and props made, distributing challenges across Europe to any and all comers, and loaf about a year at a time without doing anything to support themselves).

The Lailang family served the Dukes of Burgundy for nearly 6 generations, and none of them served in a capacity lower than an officer of high rank (the last I can think of commanded a Bande d'Ordnance' in the mid 16th century. )

I can't speak to the comparitive wealth of Ulrich von Lichtenstein, but I would hardly consider a chap skylarking about the continent in his true loves dress exactly a normal phenomenon in any generation. Eccentricity on that scale is usually supported by considerable wealth or family connections (just like normal people don't go about measuring the pyramid of Cheops while dressed in a tutu - normal people used to end up in assylums when undertaking such ventures. It is the 'important' who are allowed to be so eccentric and run loose.)

Knight Errantry is the stuff of High Medieval fantasy, and has as much to do with reality as 'Moonraker' has to do with the Space program.

[Otto von Teich]

Chef wrote; I can't speak to the comparitive wealth of Ulrich von Lichtenstein, but I would hardly consider a chap skylarking about the continent in his true loves dress exactly a normal phenomenon in any generation. Eccentricity on that scale is usually supported by considerable wealth or family connections (just like normal people don't go about measuring the pyramid of Cheops while dressed in a tutu - normal people used to end up in assylums when undertaking such ventures. It is the 'important' who are allowed to be so eccentric and run loose.)
LOL, That made me spew coffee. Good point though, I've told my kids if I was poor I'd be called crazy,But since I've got a little money, I'm only eccentric.....Otto

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[HugoFuchs]

There was a piece I read at one point that remarked that the Baltic Crusades (from approximately 1180-1410) were as much that it allowed knight errants to prove themselves as it was to christianize the pagans.

[Murdock]

Professor plum

in the library

with the pipe

[James the Baker]

I have read that the church began imposing all sorts of rules upon knighthood,including making it a holy calling,in order to reign the wild and crazy knights in a bit.If I remember correctly most of the holy-type orders were pretty big at the close of the 12th and beginning of the 13th centuries.perhaps if there were wandering knights of any great number these may have been factors in their "settling down".
James

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[Murdock]

"The US doesn't have large numbers of men riding around in jeeps with machine guns terrorizing people because we have a very strong and multi-layered legal and law enforcement system."


No ours ride around in Caprice's with flec paint and loud bumping stero's and limo tint on the windows.



Half kidding

Mostly just pissed

[Jehan de Pelham]

I generally agree with what's been said, so I am just going to participate in the hijacking. Last night after the weekly deed of arms, I was at an Arby's in the parking lot, eating, and a Caprice with limo tint and a crappy stereo job pulled up, just parked kinda haphazardly, not in a space, more like near the door, and three dudes hopped out and went inside. I put the truck in reverse, and pulled on outta there. Wasn't havin' it.

Jehan, squire of Sir Vitus