Battle damage on Authentic Armour

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:28 pm

Here are a few pics of a German left vambrace circa 1560-80 showing a forge welded crack, and a cut that penetrated the outer layers of steel quite a bit,but only cut about 1/4" through the bottom layer.
[img]http://members.aol.com/ottodeich/IMG_0351.jpg[/img]
[url=http://members.aol.com/ottodeich/IMG_0352.jpg[/img]]http://members.aol.com/ottodeich/IMG_0352.jpg[/img][/url]
[img]http://members.aol.com/ottodeich/IMG_0353.jpg[/img]

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:31 pm

heres the crack......Otto
[img]http:members.aol.com/ottodeich/IMG_0353.jpg[/img]

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:34 pm

try it one more time.......
[img]http://members.aol.com/ottodeich/IMG_0353.jpg[/img]

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:40 pm

Heres da stinking crack!
[img]http://members.aol.com/ottodeich/IMG_0352.jpg[/img]
Anyway I think this guy used his left arm like a sheild,probably defending blows to the head.....otto

Owen · Post by **Owen** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:57 pm

Looks more like the result of corrosion. A weapon impact would not simply crack the piece, but deform and tear it.

------------------
Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 11:17 pm

But Otto said that the crack was forge-welded, i.e. repaired. I imagine that reshaping was the process immediately prior to the forge-welding.

I would guess that the weapon was a spiked or pick-ended model, or a concussive axe or mace.
Thanks for the pictures.

IdÃ«val

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 12:31 am

1/4" through the bottom layer? Wow. How thick is that piece?

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 12:54 am

That cut might be where something wore through.

I've seen the piece, it looks like it had been repaired a few times. The "cut" has no corresponding denting or cracking with it. To me this indicates that it was not the result of an impact.

As for the damage, we all want to think that it came from battle but it is as likely that it came from neglect. Somone didn't really care about great grandpas "cheap" suit of armour. Its also possible that this piece had been recycled and used by mulitiple people, thus incurring wear as opposed to battle damage.

of course this is all supposition. mAybe you could take it to a metalurgist and they could tell you if the repairs are contemporary withthe piece?

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 1:31 am

The straight lines (or very close to it) would tend to indicate some sort of edge hitting it. Whether a sword, or dropping it on a table...?

randy · Post by **randy** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 2:57 am

I have gotten my hands on a few period swords but how did you get the armour? I didn't even encounter it when I went to europe ans scoured antique shops for such things.

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 9:49 am

Hello joaquin, I didnt measure the thickness before I sold it but it was very thin,maybe 18-20 gauge,there were three distinct layers
visable on the cut area,each one tissue papper thin.Sorry the photo is so fuzzy.Murdoch, you havnt seen this piece,I sold it off quite awhile back.I think your
thinking of the 15th cent german gothic vambrace i still have.It has several areas worn through.Randy, I bought that piece about 20 years ago from William Fagan,An arms dealer near Detroit.He used to have GREAT deals on stuff, but his prices are WAY out there now. I would recomend Sothebys in NY. They have an Arms and Armour sale once a year.You can often get "box lots" of old bits of Armour very cheaply....Otto
PS diffinatly a cut and forge welded crack