Improving Gauntlet Thumbs

Frederich Von Teufel · Sun Dec 16, 2001 2:20 am

I suppose it should go without saying, that it is almost impossible to recreate gauntlets that will meet SCA requirements, be historically accurate and actually be protective enough to allow a fighter to take a full force blow to the thumb. It seems as if you can have any two of the three, but not all three at the same time.

A perusal of historical gauntlets shows that the predominant method of articulating thumbs was through a simple hinge to the hand portion of the gauntlet. While it is effective in allowing excellent articulation to the thumb, it also allows force to be easily transferred to the thumb.

Now, I solve this problem from a safety viewpoint. I allow articulation easily in the x/y axis, but only give minimal articulation in the z axis to help reduce shock and trauma to the thumb. This comes from analysis of how most people fight using gauntlets. I noticed while many people change hand placement on their weapon (opening and closing the hand), there was not much movement of the thumb in the z axis (spreading the hand and thumb flat).

I've come up with a fairly strong way of having a historically accurate hinged thumb, that still provide protection from blows to the thumb, but I found that it took so much work to create that I would have to increase my gauntlet prices by 50%.

It occurred to me that we have a huge skill resource here. Plus, we have a large fighter base, i.e. the people who actually wear the armour.

So, for those armourers, how would you meet those criteria already stated? How would you create a historically accurate thumb, that meets all of our safety needs? How do you keep your customers thumbs safe, and what considerations do you have when building your gauntlets? How safe do consider to be safe enough? How have you been able to keep it within your customers price range?

And fighters, what have you wanted from a gauntlet that hasn't been met? What have you found that most closely fits your needs? What do you look for when shopping for gauntlets? What one thing will cause you to put the gauntlets down and walk away?

I could, of course, be the only one that thinks about these things, but I have to assume that I'm not the only one who continually strives to improve the design of their armour. Just trying to spark dialog for the betterment of all.

Frederich

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Sun Dec 16, 2001 2:45 am

Frederich, glad to hear that you are working on thumbs. That part of my hand, along with the index knuckle, seems to be the most abused portion of my hands when fighting with gauntlets. I have so far not found a pair of gauntlets that are flexible enough to fight with a sword and strong enough to take a great sword blow

The two easy (hah) requirements are all I ever want.

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Jean Paul de Sens (JP)

And Shepherds we shall be
for thee my lord for thee
power hath descended forth from thy hand
so that my feet may swiftly carry out thy command
And we shall flow a river forth unto thee
And teeming with souls shall it ever be
In nomini patriath, fili, espritus sancti.

-The Boondock Saints

[This message has been edited by Jean Paul de Sens (edited 12-16-2001).]

Dalewyn · Post by **Dalewyn** » Sun Dec 16, 2001 11:11 am

I add a plate over the thumb and metacarpal plate that transfers force to the metacarpal instead of the thumb. Period? I don't know, but it seems to work. You can see a pic on my site.

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Dalewyn
Dalewyn@dbis.ns.ca
www.AlchemyArmory.com

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Sun Dec 16, 2001 12:05 pm

JP, you obviously need a pair of Glendour's gauntlets! (This is a crass unpaid commercial plug.).

His thumbs are damned good, I've actually talked him into selling a guy a pair of them to upgrade his gauntlets.

Roderick makes a welded thumb that looks like it ought to work well too.

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Sun Dec 16, 2001 4:03 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Frederich Von Teufel:
I've come up with a fairly strong way of having a historically accurate hinged thumb, that still provide protection from blows to the thumb, but I found that it took so much work to create that I would have to increase my gauntlet prices by 50%.Frederich</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pictures?

Rainald · Post by **Rainald** » Sun Dec 16, 2001 5:23 pm

I have found Master Cad's thumb design to be the best I have ever used. It takes a little bit of work to get them all properly articulated, but once you get it, they work great. The only way I could think to improve them is to make an enclosed thumb tip.

Caspian · Post by **Caspian** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 12:10 am

I think potential answers to this question also have to consider the fighting style of the fighter. Some fighters like or use the "baseball bat" grip and some fighters like to direct their thumb straight up (like Fonzie...Happy Days)in order to direct the sword better. I have problems designing the latter in a period fashion, because that means extending the thumb away from the hand, but trying to protect a thumb in this position is difficult. Often people use one piece thumbs or clam shells to perform this, but i dont really like those methods.

marcidius · Post by **marcidius** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 12:49 am

from now on, we can refer to Z as the fon-Z axis. I personally think we're just screwed on this one.... You could make the gaunts a bit bulkier, and hide the non-periodness of whatever you did, but I can't think of anything better than that at this point.

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-Let cry the skies to cleanse my soul, let weep the heavens to make me whole.

Ares · Post by **Ares** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 9:31 am

What does a good thumb look like!?
I have seen (like CAD) where most of the thumb is unarticulated and attached to the main part of the gauntlet. then two plates out.
Is that right?
I have dished the latter two plates and they do work well...

Lord Calidan · Post by **Lord Calidan** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 10:06 am

I have a marshal that really likes the ones that Sir Andrew Ward makes.He said they seem to work pretty well.As for me I really dont know how well they work.

Mike Odea · Post by **Mike Odea** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 9:40 pm

mine are of leather clamshell on the outside and 2 lames on the inside connected to them for greater articulation,the insides are 2 thickness of 10oz each and the outer shell is 10oz one thickness,the thumb is done the same way but with a covering plate at the joint to absorbe some of the force of a blow,I have to extend the shell a little farther out on the hand but it seems to work for me and others,Ive also started putting an extra leather plate out over the knuckles for extra protection and an extra plate on the bell just above the wrist ,all together that gives each area of the hand at least 3 thickness of 10oz leather,they may not be exact in period construction but they have a period look,but Im allways willing to learn new and better ways of doing them if any one has patterns I can use for leather,Ide be greatfull -Mike Odea

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 5:08 am

I have made a pair of andy ward gauntlets
and find the thumbs surprisingly easy to shape, the one way i would make them better is make the thumbs only go back so far. So if your wearing the gauntlet the thumb cannot be hyper-extended open by a stray shot. I have known 2 people who have had there thumbs hit while changing grips on a great-weapon and both times there thumbs were forced open too far. One of them put a rivet in his illusion gauntlets to prevent the thump from opening farther then his hand would natrually open

what do you people think of Illusions stock mitten gauntlet thumbs?

Caleb