Welding-Heat treatment question

hanjo · Post by **hanjo** » Sun Dec 23, 2001 3:53 pm

I am currently makeing a somen, using the patterns given by Effingham (thanks man you rock). The somen, or full face mask, is made of at least 3 parts. Forehead, cheecks/chin, and nose. I am using 18 guage spring steel. If I choose not to rivet these pieces together I have the option of welding them (duh, man I can state the obvious quite well). But being that the somen is protecting my face and I have choosen to use 18 guage (as will be the rest of the suit) I am going to heat treat them. If I go with welding of the various parts of the somen, what will happen to the welded areas during the heat treatment procedure? My last was assuming that I fully constructed the somen first. So my other query is this: what happens to the properties of the meatal after heat treatment then welding them? Oh, and happy holidays all, I hope you get all those neat tools that you have been drooling over, then maybe one of you can make my somen for me! J.K.

Hanjo/Jay

[This message has been edited by hanjo (edited 12-23-2001).]

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Sun Dec 23, 2001 4:33 pm

What will you be using it for?

Krag · Post by **Krag** » Sun Dec 23, 2001 5:03 pm

As long as you use the right rod, it shouldn't be a problem. You should be able to find a rod matched to almost every type of steel these days.

If you weld after you heat treat, you ruin the heat treating in the area welded.

------------------
Krag von Berghen
KragAxe Armoury

Member's Pics

hanjo · Post by **hanjo** » Sun Dec 23, 2001 5:03 pm

SCA fighting,,,,,of course

Jeffrey Hedgecock · Post by **Jeffrey Hedgecock** » Mon Dec 24, 2001 2:42 am

As Krag says, the right welding rod is key. I would recommend gas welding the piece, consult with your local welding supply for a recommendation of the best rod to use. If you can't find a rod that matches the alloy closely, you might try shearing a thin strip (1/16-1/8") of the material itself. I've welded spring for weapon blades by cutting a strip of the plate for fill rod. Worked well for me.

Also, it would probably be best to heat treat after welding and normalizing the seam areas. That way you get a consistent harness.

Let us know how it works.

------------------
Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock,
Armourer
Historic Enterprises
http://www.historicenterprises.com

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Mon Dec 24, 2001 3:21 am

Will you have some sort of bar-grill covering it? I don't think they will pass it since the min. is supposed to be 16g.

hanjo · Post by **hanjo** » Mon Dec 24, 2001 9:57 am

Heat treated 18 guage wil be consiterabaly (sorry i cant spell) stronger than 16 guage stainless.

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Mon Dec 24, 2001 11:34 am

Yes it would, but so is SS, and I don't think that they would allow an 18g SS helm. The problem is that they have no real way to check whether it is properly heat treated or not. The marshals did pass a ceramic helm at Pennsic once...

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Mon Dec 24, 2001 11:43 am

I'd have to agree... remembering my past experiences with marshals, if they find out it's 18 ga., heat treated or not, you won't be playing that day. And once one of them finds out, word will get around your area and you won't get to play at all.

Just use 16 ga. to begin with and avoid the trouble...

jgalak · Post by **jgalak** » Mon Dec 24, 2001 1:15 pm

SCA rules specifically state that, as far as tehy are concerned, weight is a major part of the protection offered by the helmet. Therefore, while all other rules say "steel or equivalent", for helms 16ga steel is minimum, regardless of what kind of steel., and ultralight materials (titanium, etc.) are specifically forbidden, even if they are as strong or stronger. They are just too light.

So even though 18ga high carbon is much stronger than 16ga mild, it still won't pass. You should make it at least 16ga.

------------------

Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak

hanjo · Post by **hanjo** » Mon Dec 24, 2001 3:23 pm

The kabuto it self will be 12/14 guage, the somen will be 18. I would never have a helm proper be 18 guage. That would be out right silly. but if I did, that would be evolution in action i supose.

Hanjo/Jay

hanjo · Post by **hanjo** » Mon Dec 24, 2001 3:28 pm

The kabuto it self will be 12/14 guage, the somen will be 18. I would never have a helm proper be 18 guage. That would be out right silly. but if I did, that would be evolution in action i supose.

Hanjo/Jay

Bob H · Post by **Bob H** » Mon Dec 24, 2001 4:19 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by hanjo:
The kabuto it self will be 12/14 guage, the somen will be 18. I would never have a helm proper be 18 guage. That would be out right silly. but if I did, that would be evolution in action i supose.

Hanjo/Jay<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe that's still insufficient thickness according to the SCA rules, and marshalls will examine this helmet meticulously since they don't see very many like it. If you want the helmet passed under the "equivalent material" clause, I'd strongly suggest getting a decision in writing from your Kingdom Earl Marshall.

I very much respect your plans to do things right; I just don't want you to miss out on an event's fighting because of a misunderstanding with the local marshals.

hanjo · Post by **hanjo** » Mon Dec 24, 2001 4:35 pm

I hear ya. I mean not much dfference between an 18 and 16 guage mask as it were in weight, but if 16 lets me enter then lists and 18 dosnt, well 16 has it. I am just lazy and 18 would have been easyer (sorry, once again spelling is off) to work. And thank you everyone fr your input and advice.

Jay/Hanjo

Oh, and Jgalak, who ya be? I see you are in Astoria and have mentioned Kelson and Balin, so I figured mayhaps i know ya.

Jay/Hanjo

[This message has been edited by hanjo (edited 12-24-2001).]