Mongolian Armor

[Brennan mac Fearghus]

Hi All,

I have a new fighter starting with my group who is interested in pursuing a Mongolian persona. Having never even dabbled in that part of the world, I have no idea where to start. Does anyone have good suggestions as to some good starter armor for a Mongolian persona, especially who might make a reasonable, appropriate, starter helm? Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brennan

[Animal]

Go to the essays section and look at the one T Bob did on lamellar. The lamellar plates White Mountain and GAA are selling are beautiful, but not Mongolian. The ones T Bob illustrates are. A close second are the noble plastics plates. I like T Bobs better, that's why I wear a suit made that way.
As for helmets, I dunno about a starter helmet. I've seen one or two armories have a 'mongol' helmet for sale but most of them seem way expensive for what it is. That's why we're making our own.
Hope it helps.

[Mord]

While I was trying (in vain) to organize my library, I found a book in Polish all about Mongolian (I think). The title escapes me, but the illustrations are useful. Keep reminding me about it, and I'll post the title, etc.

Mord.

[Ivo]

Hello.

Go get H Russell Robinson´s "Oriental Armour". There used to be a reasonable reprint from Dover Publications recently. Might be a bit dated and not be the be all, end all volume in this field, but it just about covers everything to get started and get a little deeper into the issue.

Regards

Ivo

[InsaneIrish]

take a look at Silk roads design armoury. A great place for info about the whole mongol persian russian hun area.

As for helmets? Wait til after the new year and ask me again.
I am working with a UK armourer that is making a Ruso-Persian SCA legal helm that will be totally kickass when finished.

[Padrig]

You probably already know about this one but just in case.

http://www.geocities.com/kaganate/armour.html

Pad

[Mord]

While I was trying (in vain) to organize my library, I found a book in Polish all about Mongolian (I think). The title escapes me, but the illustrations are useful. Keep reminding me about it, and I'll post the title, etc.

Mord.

Ok, here's the title:

Uzbrojenie Koczownikow Wielkiego Stepu W Czasach Ekspansji Mongolow.
by, Witold Swietoslawski, 1996. ISBN 8385879714.

As fate would have it, as I was searching David Brown Books (www.oxbowbooks.com), I found this: "Arms and Armour of the Nomads of the Great Steppe in the Time of the Mongol Expansion (12th to 14th Centuries), but the same author, ISBN 838587420X. Priced very reasonably at $19.95. The exact URL is, www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/25727.

Hope this helps.

Mord.

[Brennan mac Fearghus]

While I was trying (in vain) to organize my library, I found a book in Polish all about Mongolian (I think). The title escapes me, but the illustrations are useful. Keep reminding me about it, and I'll post the title, etc.

Mord.

Ok, here's the title:

Uzbrojenie Koczownikow Wielkiego Stepu W Czasach Ekspansji Mongolow.
by, Witold Swietoslawski, 1996. ISBN 8385879714.

As fate would have it, as I was searching David Brown Books (www.oxbowbooks.com), I found this: "Arms and Armour of the Nomads of the Great Steppe in the Time of the Mongol Expansion (12th to 14th Centuries), but the same author, ISBN 838587420X. Priced very reasonably at $19.95. The exact URL is, www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/25727.

Hope this helps.

Mord.

Wow, this is great. Thanks.

[Avarga]

Hi All,

I have a new fighter starting with my group who is interested in pursuing a Mongolian persona. Having never even dabbled in that part of the world, I have no idea where to start. Does anyone have good suggestions as to some good starter armor for a Mongolian persona, especially who might make a reasonable, appropriate, starter helm? Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brennan

GAA has an excellent looking helm in his <a href="http://www.gaa-armouries.com/Gallery/mongal.htm">gallery</a>, but he is not accepting orders for anything that he does not have in stock. His Highness, Kelson from the East Kingdom made my current helm based off similar documentation, and it looks similar. Also, this is my second helm from him and I highly recomend his skills, customer service and prices.

I can email you pics of the unfinished helm if you prefer.

As far as body armor is concerned, most Mongol personas go for lemellar. Look to the Osprey books for inspiration.

I fight pole arm with one fashoned to look like a quan-do. I will eventually make a chinese broad sword and use a center-gripped dished round shield (like Mandrake sells, or atleast used to, I can't find it on his website)

I hope this helps!

[Dmitriy]

Actually, the Red Kaganate url is now http://www.redkaganate.org

the armor pages are at http://www.redkaganate.org/martial/armour/armour.shtml

-D

[HugoFuchs]

I've got a scan of a c.1353 illumination showing the fighting between the poles and the mongols from the christian knights in 1241. While a bit later than that battle, it does show the mongols with both 2 lances(spears) and bows. No swords, but then this shows them attacking calvary not infantry.

As soon as I can figure out whether the upload problem is on my side or a PW problem with JT I'll post them.

[Ahriman]

Just inserting a few pictures of hungarian armor, which is quite similar to mongolian (at least, early ones, I mean, X-XIIth cent).

[Baron Alejandro]

Dover Publications (LOVE that company) has the Robinson Book. Let's see if that link works.

http://store.yahoo.com/doverpublication ... 18189.html

Take care.

Alejandro

[InsaneIrish]

Just inserting a few pictures of hungarian armor, which is quite similar to mongolian (at least, early ones, I mean, X-XIIth cent).

that is some nice armour, is that real documented hungarian armour?
Or someone's interpretation of what hungarian armour should look like?

[Russ Mitchell]

Um... I would STRONGLY advise against patterning anything off these folks. We know that Hungarians made great use of leather armor, particularly before chivalric notions narrowed down the ranks of military cavalrymen (lots of "medium cavalry" in Hungary, in other words) -- but there is no scholarly consensus for what form that armor took. It's not well known in America, but until the Angevin dynasty took over, and throughout the "crusading" period, Hungary was also home to extensive numbers of muslim troops.

a) jawshan, cuirie, clavain, lamellar, leather scale, and even an earlier, thicker form of buff coat (but that's for Szekely/Cumans) all are plausible, alongside all the usual run of "western" and Byzantine equipment.
b) But the fantasy mishmash of elements in those pictures is not. Great fantasy armor, but that's about it.

I would strongly advise against using anything Magyar as a parallel, due to the constant interplay between Western, Byzantine elements that would have been baldly out of place on the Central Eurasian steppe. Frankly, if he's playing a "visitor" to a western court, it would be more appropriate for him to wear a western armor given to him as a hospitality gift, over top of hsi preferred clothing.

Otherwise, I own Swiatoslawski's book (the English translation), and it is generally good as a beginning reference point.

[HugoFuchs]

Here's a quick scan of those c.1353 illuminations

Also in previous post(s) I have put up some links to mongolian armor.