Early period spangens

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:14 am

Does anyone have any info on these helms?

http://student.maxwell.syr.edu/anderson ... helmet.htm
http://student.maxwell.syr.edu/anderson ... helmet.htm

I tried emailing the site owner but the addy keeps bouncing.

I am pretty sure the second one is the Baldenheim helmet but could be wrong.

Halv

Mord · Post by **Mord** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:44 am

Halv,

I've seen them. I think the first is in the Metropolitan Musuem of Art, which means Grancsay did an article on it.

Keep reminding me and I'll look around my so-called library for stuff.

Why do I suspect Halberd's going to identify them instantly?

MOrd.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:08 pm

The one in the Met (I don't have the pics I took handy to see if it's one of these) claims there are ~6 of these in existance. I can check my notes later. I'm pretty sure I wrote down everything on the plaque when I went a few months ago.

Jacob

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:13 pm

6?

Id say thats a conservative estimate;)

see http://www.missouri.edu/~winsloww/archi ... /spangens/

Halv

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:20 pm

I don't recall if it said 6 in that particular find, but I believe that the 6 it referred to were nearly identical.

Mord · Post by **Mord** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:26 pm

Jacob wrote:I don't recall if it said 6 in that particular find, but I believe that the 6 it referred to were nearly identical.

I'm just quoting Jacob because he was the last post.

The number of helms found has an entire history attached to it. Longer ago (many, many moons) than I'd like to remember, I did some work on early medieval helmets, including spangenhelms. I found a series of articles, mostly in German, about them. If you read (or tried to) these articles in chronological order of publication, you find that the earlier articles identify only few helms. A later article identifies more. A still later article identifies and locates still more. Right now, there seems to be something like 24 helms identified, but I'd have to check. Fortunately I did save copies of these works, now I just have to find them.

Mord.

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:36 pm

Der Helm von Baldenhiem is about the best source I've seen.
Just wish they'd translate the damn thing;)

Halv

RalphS · Post by **RalphS** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:50 pm

Not the same, but similar:
http://www.gotscha.nl/uk-spangenhelm.htm

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:00 pm

thanks RalphS
Thats really cool!

Halv

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:00 pm

I THINK the second one might be in the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna.

Mord · Post by **Mord** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:31 am

Ok, folks, after digging through what I laughingly call my library (it's more like a heap or a pile), I found these:

Werner, J. "Zur Herkunft fruhmittelalterlichen Spangenhelme." in the periodical "Praehistorische Zeitschrift." 1949-1950, pp34-50. This article identifies 15 helms.

Gamber, O. "Die fruhmittelalterliches Spangenhelme." in the periodical "Waffen und Kostumekunde." Band 24, 1982, pp 81-86. ISSN 0042-9945. This article identifies 24 helms.

Steuer, H. "Helm & Ringschwert." in the periodical "Studien Zur Sachsenforchung." Vol. 6, 1987. pp189-236. This article identifies 25 helms.

All of these articles are in German. The best of the lot is Steuer's because it seems to locate and compare spangenhelms with other early medieval helm. A very useful article.

There is also "Der Helm von Baldheim." but Halvgrim has already cited that. Grancsay's article is somewhere in the heap. I'll post the citation sometime next week.

Mord.

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:40 am

Werner, J. "Zur Herkunft fruhmittelalterlichen Spangenhelme." in the periodical "Praehistorische Zeitschrift." 1949-1950, pp34-50. This article identifies 15 helms.

--Thanks Mord
I have the above article if anyone ever needs it.
There are only pics of 4 helms in it though and one of them is what I would classify as one of the very early persian 'ridge' helmets if I understand Adam Berry's definiton correctly (similar to http://www.missouri.edu/~winsloww/archi ... g%2033.jpg )

I will check out the other two sources asap.

Halv

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:59 pm

I finally remembered to check my notes. All I've got from the plate is Ostrogothic, 6th century, inventory # 42.50.1

These are the pictures I took:

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jselmer/images/100_0395.JPG
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jselmer/images/100_0397.JPG
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jselmer/images/100_0398.JPG

Mord · Post by **Mord** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:37 am

Jacob wrote:I finally remembered to check my notes. All I've got from the plate is Ostrogothic, 6th century, inventory # 42.50.1

These are the pictures I took:

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jselmer/images/100_0395.JPG
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jselmer/images/100_0397.JPG
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jselmer/images/100_0398.JPG

That's in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. Grancsay wrote the article about it.

Mord.

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:24 pm

Mord

The library here doesnt have either of these"

Gamber, O. "Die fruhmittelalterliches Spangenhelme." in the periodical "Waffen und Kostumekunde." Band 24, 1982, pp 81-86. ISSN 0042-9945. This article identifies 24 helms.

Steuer, H. "Helm & Ringschwert." in the periodical "Studien Zur Sachsenforchung." Vol. 6, 1987. pp189-236. This article identifies 25 helms.

Might I talk you into sending me copies?

Halv

Mord · Post by **Mord** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:42 pm

Halvgrim wrote:Mord

The library here doesnt have either of these"

Gamber, O. "Die fruhmittelalterliches Spangenhelme." in the periodical "Waffen und Kostumekunde." Band 24, 1982, pp 81-86. ISSN 0042-9945. This article identifies 24 helms.

Steuer, H. "Helm & Ringschwert." in the periodical "Studien Zur Sachsenforchung." Vol. 6, 1987. pp189-236. This article identifies 25 helms.

Might I talk you into sending me copies?

Halv

Ya, shur, yabetcha...

Mord.

Mord · Post by **Mord** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:40 pm

Halv,

I've lost your snail-mail address. Please PM it to me?

Mord.

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:42 pm

Done

Halv