Dagged Mail Shirt, accuracy?

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:49 pm

Hey folks,

Just curious whether anyone could let me know how accurate dagging the bottoms and sleeves on a haubergeon (short sleeves) dating from about 1100-1200 would be. I'm hoping to purchase a cheap knee-length shirt on ebay in the next few months, and personally dagging it before I give it to my friend for his early medieval Italian kit.

I'm personally portraying a Russian Varangian from a similar period of time, and am using a knee length haubergeon with straight-cut sleeves and bottom, and a split up the front and back for manuverability. I'd like his shirt to differ from mine, since we reenact together, simply for varieties sake.

So, would I have some historic basis to the idea, or at least enough to say that it could have been done during this era? I can't put any more exact dates, as I'm not sure what he wants to do, exactly. I just know he'll need a mail shirt!

-Gregory-

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:20 am

Dagging really cropped up in the 14th century, AFAIK, and the later in the century, the more likely dagging would be found. Numerous small dags seem more correct than fewer large ones, and very small dags widely spaced were also known.

I think you might be more historically defensible with brass links as borders, in an exceedingly simple pattern, for restraint. You might border the sleeve ends and the neckhole and leave the skirt-hem plain.

Willing Pell · Post by **Willing Pell** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:56 am

I have seen a few Roman stelles with round dagged mail and lamellar shirts, by the way, I like your site Gregory.

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:20 pm

Thanks for the reply and compliment, Willin'!

Yeah, I hadn't thought about Roman Examples! I knew that lots of auxiliary hamata's commonly had dagged edges... Maybe I wouldn't be going leaps and bounds to do it for the 12th century, since it had been done before that time, too!

-Gregory-

Hew · Post by **Hew** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:08 pm

Konstantin the Red wrote:I think you might be more historically defensible with brass links as borders, in an exceedingly simple pattern, for restraint. You might border the sleeve ends and the neckhole and leave the skirt-hem plain.

I've wondered if the brass borders had something to do with the notion of water (eg rain) running down the links and stopping at the edge. If those bottom links are brass, they won't rust.
Add dagging to that, and you get an edge that would tend to flip around, thus helping to shed the water.

That's just sheer speculation, based on something I'd heard about the practical reasons for fringes on leather jacket sleeves and hems.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:03 pm

Interesting... d@#ned interesting.