Archive direction-topic split

sebastian · Post by **sebastian** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 12:43 am

I split this off the other topic because I am taking it a different direction.

Mykaru-I agree to a certain point, but I'll use your original post as an example.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I will begin. For coppes I begin with a shallow dish. I then go to a deeper dish in a hardwood stump. On this dish I work outside inwards beginning on the end away from the wing. After that I go to the ball. I raise the coppe until I reach the depth I want. I then planish in a criss-cross pattern. It works best for me.
Others?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this, you metioned coppes and coppe.
If I were looking for information on elbow cops your post would never show up.

Most people who are starting have little to no knowledge of how to begin. We mention hammers and swage blocks/dishing stumps quite a bit, but rarely how to use them. Telling someone to pickup a hammer and "tap in a outward spiraling pattern" to dish. What does that really tell us? Start in the middle of the piece and work out. It says nothing about how hard to hit or what kind of hammer.

As far as looking at the FAQ section. The AA FAQ's have nothing to do with armour. It's all about useing the message board. http://www.armourarchive.com/essays.shtml
Does have some very good information, but its arrangement is chaotic. I think that 'The Blunt Skippy of Making Armour' should be followed by 'Making Your Own Tools for Armoring' and then an article we lack, 'Dishing 101'. Once I get a stump made I would be willing to write this one.

I would suggest that people write up definitions and how-to's so we can build a better FAQ section. One that actually covers Fequently Asked Questions.
Add them to this tread, then the Moderators can cut and paste them to a webpage.

Sasha · Post by **Sasha** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 2:55 am

eeeek...this could get ugly.

What he was asking for was a list where the more experienced armourers could go to discuss a higher level of questions.
Your points actually hi-light how right he is.

...in a couple of ways.

Firstly he wants a place where those of us who DO know what the terminology is can take problems that we encounter and solutions that we find.

This would not be about being accessably to new armourers...it wouldd be about making it worthwhile for some of the experienced armourers to actually check in and be here, rather then giving up in despair of learning anything because someone has come along that wants to know how to peen a rivet AGAIN....

As to his other point. If you wanted to know what raising and plannishing were(in a spiral pattern or otherwise)...you would have found an article on the board entitled "raising" in which i did a fair to middling job of explaining and giving a run down of tools and instructions.

If the idea was to show that he had a point when he said that no one does any research EVEN WITHIN THE SITE, then you have sort of succeded.

Now you can get annoyed at me.

Just don't throw miniture gerkins...they are for Galon and he does not like to share.

Sasha
Riverforge

The Lost Scott · Post by **The Lost Scott** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 9:39 am

I have been thinking on this subject for the past several weeks due to the nature of many of the recent posts soooo.. What happened to the armouring FAQ we were compiling in another thread a couple of mounths ago we should dig it up and have the editors make it a permanate part of the archive so that people can go to it to get a basic understanding of the armouring trade and perhaps not have to ask the same question that someone else asked last week.

Aaron Miaullis · Post by **Aaron Miaullis** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 10:24 am

Sometimes an experienced armourer has to walk a "newbie" through it. I mean take their hand like you would a toddler, and get them standing up and waddling along.

Example:
I've been having problems with padding gauntlets. Last night, STEP-BY-STEP, with CONSTANT annoying/stupid questions from me ("What's a rigger's glove?"), Sasha walked me carefully through it last night on chat. This was invaluable help (thanks Sasha!) that I couldn't get otherwise.

I was unable to find how to pad a gauntlet here, step-by-step.

-Aaron

Galon · Post by **Galon** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 10:50 am

while I might point out that there is an article in the essays on how to peen a rivet, as well as how to dish metal(armour bowling or raising).

I do agree that a faq is way over due..

[This message has been edited by Galon (edited 11-07-2000).]

Galon · Post by **Galon** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 10:55 am

Devil's Advocate Mode Activated:

how about a 3rd possiblity, what if all the really great armourers are still around and they havent gone anywhere. Maybe because they have become so good, they just dont have time to participate as much as they would like?

Something to think about..

sebastian · Post by **sebastian** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 11:15 am

We could make a simple FAQ section with something like this:

<I>Given the type of posting method we use here at the Armour Archive, all posts are saved and make up a large data base.
If you go into the Disscusions forums {!---Make this a direct link---!}, on the top right side you will find a link to our search engine.
Please feel free to enter the basic one or two word topic you are looking for. Please keep in mind that spelling will have a direct impact on your results.</I>

-The Management

This would be a quick fix for FAQ. However I think that an actual FAQ section would be more effective. Although it is also more time consuming to build.
I have offered before, and do so again now, my list of online armouries for the ever popular "Where can I find on-line armouries?"

Sasha-
My approach to Mykaru's rant is this:
If we had a more obvious FAQ, and something saying please do a search before you ask a question; this would reduce the novice postings on the site and allow more experienced threads.
This would also make the information going out to newbies uniform, so when one emails you and says "I read an article on the AA about raising, but I dont understand this part..." you know A)What article he is talking about, and B)How accurate the info is.

Just curious, does Sasha's Sanding method involve mini gerkins???

sebastian · Post by **sebastian** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 11:21 am

Aaron-

Just a thought, here.

Why dont you write up an article on the experience, and post it here.

Since we already have Galon in favor of a FAQ, maybe we can get him to convince JT to post it.

Like I said, just a thought.

andyward · Post by **andyward** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 11:59 am

Since someone was already playing devil's advocate... I'll play a psychologist's advocate!

About reading and researching... If we all did the reading and researching... there would be much less need for the Armour Archive. All the information is out there. Even the questions I recently asked about dies for my hydraulic press. The problem is the time we have to spend sorting through all the information we do not need, to find that which we do. That, and to support or debunk the information we read... we like to ask those we trust. Or, at least, those with more experience that we have.

The newer armorers often don't even know where to start. The creation of a FAQ is a wonderful idea. I'd also ask that it be very excessable from each topics page. I.E. a button right near the top of the topics list that would take a person to the FAQ page. Once there, the basic questions and/or topics that clicking on them will take them to an answer. Make it simple and straight-forward.

Besides all this, it seems to me that just creating a Forum of "ADVANCED Armour - Design and Construction" would be fairly easy for the editors to do. Add a blurb on the top of the list that this forum is for everyone to read... but, that we ask that only experienced armorers post. I think having a list were a person has to be judged to have the ability and skills to be admitted to the list... would make it hard on the editors.

Oh, and on the subject of trading "secrets" or techniques you don't want to teach just everyone... I'd advise doing that in person or via private one-on-one emails.

My 2 cents worth...

Andy

sebastian · Post by **sebastian** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 12:19 pm

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 1:32 pm

We can always use more essays! Do I hear the sounds of people volunteering?

One of the drawbacks about creating yet another board is that it means one more thing to check ... too many of these, and we run the risk of having a whole bunch of fragmented forums where there is not much going on, instead of having a few that are quite active. Also, there is no guarantee that novices won't think "Expert Board -- hey, I'll just post my question about where to get rivets here, since I'm bound to get some informed answers" -- so we would still end up ploughing through a ton of basic questions.

As it is now, if someone posts a q. on the main board, there will be several responses, from various levels of expertise. I don't see this as a bad thing -- it's very educational, and more egalitarian than having a beginner/pro split. Those professionals who can spare the time to visit and help out -- that's great, and I know everyone appreciates being able to learn from them.

Re: novice questions, keep in mind that almost everyone on this board started out wondering "How do I peen rivets?" and "Where do I get materials?". It is just the nature of the Internet that there is no long-term memory (the nearest thing being the search function). Remember how glad we were when somebody was kind enough to answer our queries, no matter how inexperienced we were at metalworking or research. Yes, it takes time, but I think it's kind of neat to be in the position to help other people who have just found the Archive. We can provide reinforcements for the veterans who are busy or on the verge of burnout because they have just had to tackle a "What's the best way to cut rings?" thread for the 50th time.

Armour Guy · Post by **Armour Guy** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 5:48 pm

Lisa has a great point - The beginner/pro board split isn't a good idea. The FAQ is.

The problem with teh FAQ is that still some idiots will say "Duh, where can I get rivets..." Then, we can all good-naturedly bitch about people not reading the FAQ...

Anyone mind if I tackle a good chunk of the maille FAQ, as well as my own contributions to the plate/leather FAQ?

------------------
~AG
Utopia Armoury - Your one stop shoppe for all your maille needs!
Champion of Arland the Bastard
Weilder of the Rusty Spork of Doom!

Jim Lawrie · Post by **Jim Lawrie** » Tue Nov 07, 2000 8:51 pm

A bibliography would be good too, a list of favourite reference works, possibly even reviewed by the people that submitted them. This will get rid of the hoary old 'where can I find info on . . .?' question.