What is the weight of you armour?

Kniggit · Post by **Kniggit** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:04 pm

I mean the full suit of armor that you wear for combat. I was told around 40 pounds for combat armour and around 80 for tilt. But I'm confused becuase some maille shirts weight like 42 pounds. Just list the weight of your combat armour so i can get a general idea of what the weight is.

Thanks

Lord Ogier · Post by **Lord Ogier** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:30 pm

My First set weighed in at about 10#.

My second set weighs in at about 50#.

My new set weighs in at about 10#.

This is minus the helm.

Kniggit · Post by **Kniggit** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:26 am

oooohhhh

Jehan de Pelham · Post by **Jehan de Pelham** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:06 am

A typical man at arms in the late fourteenth century bore 50-55 pounds of harness into battle. By the mid fifteenth century this had increased to 55-65 lbs, but it was more complete.

I am sitting at about fifty five pounds, including shoes, underwear, and cloth, for my late 14th century portrayal.

Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:35 am

41#, but I'm only about 1/2 covered... Some of it is of thicker gage than they would have worn, but I can't afford to replace it after every battle. :wink:

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:22 am

which rig?

i can go between 60 stainless 15th century rig to abot 25 if i went with the lightest stuff i have.

We'll see how much all my spring stuff weighs.

mrks · Post by **mrks** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:20 am

hi there

I wear neck to toe titanium plate and clock in at 43 pounds including helmet 10 1/2 lbs sword3lbs and shield 9 1/4lbs.

I weigh about 145lbs out of armour so the light harness is very necessary. when I made a completely new suit I dropped nine pounds and my left knee and hip stopped aching after every practice. being over 40 sucks rocks.

my scale kit weighed in at 65lbs and I had to literally jump to take a step.

[img]http://tiarmour.com/antirknights/knightsmrksatpennsic33.jpg[/img]

Stefan ap Llewelyn · Post by **Stefan ap Llewelyn** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:24 am

I wear plate legs, padding, back and breast, helm, gauntlets and a tie up the front chain vest which comes down to the back of my knees.

Overall it comes to about 77 pounds.

knuut · Post by **knuut** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:30 am

Kniggt: I think you are being confused by the weight and strength difference between modern butted mail and historic riveted mail. Butted mail is intrinsicly somewhere between 10 and 30 times weaker than riveted or welded link mail so butted mail must be made much heavier to compensate (and it still falls apart rather easily under combat conditions). So far as I know, there are no surviving examples of full body mail harnes (long sleeve hauberk with muttons, attached or seperatr coif, and chausses with sabatons) but modern reconstructions done in historicly accurate weight riveted links are generaly in the 35-45 pound range for everything.

white mountain armoury · Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:53 am

my sca gear comes in at around 50 lbs.
the maile shirt is about 14 lbs, the lamella cuirass about 12, the helmet with a large mail aventail weights about 12, and the bazubands, boots,belt/bag and the clothing cup etc make up the remaining 15 or so lbs.
<img src="http://www.whitemountainarmoury.com/rk5a.jpg">

Kniggit · Post by **Kniggit** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:39 am

Thanks for all the help guys, i enjoyed the pics and thanks for the advice.

Ian

Ashi · Post by **Ashi** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:51 am

My new kit weighs in at about 90lbs total. I weighed each individual piece on our baby scale so the weight is accurate. I'm a fairly big guy so the weight really isn't much of an issue except for the arms. I have only fought in it 3 times so far so I figure once I get used to the extra weight there I don't think it will be much of a problem.

It is my attempt at an early 14th century transitional kit. It is all steel mostly 14 gauge with some 16 gauge on the lames for the arms and legs. I know that this is probably much heavier than what you would find in period (generally speaking) but the current market for spring/tempered steel is way out of my price range. Maybe someday.............

My new kit consists of:
Klappvisor bascinet with riveted aventail
Riveted halfsleeve hauberk
Churburg style breastplate
Articulated arms with vambrace and rearbrace
Articulated legs
Spaulders
All linen shirt, braise, chausses, pourpoint
All linen arming coat, coif and helm liner padded with cotton
Leather turnshoes

Once I get the fingered gauntlets, full cased greeves, sabatons and plague belt together it will probably weigh in at 100+.

-Ashi

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:07 am

I am reworking my kit from leather and mild steel into spring steel. My arm and shoulder protection weights about 4 pounds total. My new body armor with is a period Correnzina type of CoP is about 7 to 8 pounds for the plates so I'm thinking it will be 10 to 12 pounds with the shell and rivets. I think when the legs are done I will be in the 50 to 60 pound range with a maille shirt of about 20 pounds on. Not bad considering I am much bigger than an average guy today much less back then.

Gwydion Caithnes · Post by **Gwydion Caithnes** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:37 am

Once you get into spring steel, you'll never go back!!!

Cap'n Atli · Post by **Cap'n Atli** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:29 pm

My byrnie weighs 22.25 pounds, another 3.5 for the coif and maybe 4 for the Eric Thing helm.

Of course, I have to be able to swim in it for a bit (until I can shed it) if I fall off the ship, or jump over the side into a deep hole where the shore should have been (it happened during a filming!) :shock:

AKAWilliamUlfer · Post by **AKAWilliamUlfer** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:48 pm

helm w/ anventail
+spaulders
+arms
+legs
+gauntlets
+coat of plates
+leather harness
=70 lbs
+shield
+sword
=87
OH MY BACK, MY ACHING BACK

Owen · Post by **Owen** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:53 pm

~50 pounds.

Kniggit · Post by **Kniggit** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:58 pm

That shovel is still the coolest weapon in the world. :lol:

Can you make me one?

olaf haraldson · Post by **olaf haraldson** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:23 pm

I'm carrying 50 to 60, depending on what I'm fighting with...
23 pound riveted maille
8 pounds lamellar
8-9 pound helm
gambeson
greaves
gambesoned cuisses
clothing and other bits
brings me to about 50...

add 8 pound shield plus weapon... 60 pounds.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:15 am

Kniggit, a lot is going to depend on how much you weigh, particularly what fraction of that is muscle.

Li'l weedy guys should probably try and keep it around forty-plus pounds for SCA fighting, exclusive of shield and weapon. Be wary of going over fifty.

Mid-size, fifty-some, et cetera as above. Big guys sixty and more, same guidelines. If you're young, you can guarantee your available weight budget will increase -- as you do.

You've already had the "don't trust the mailshirt weight" lecture, I see. Butted mail is heavy for what protection it gives in the SCA game. Riveted mail is at least ten times as strong as butted on five eighths the weight -- needing several more tools to make, and taking four times as long in manufacture and hardly any time in repair -- your call. Some people just shell out the cash to get it from Indian makers. Again, your call.

Historical field harnesses in plate, cap-ÃƒÂ -pie, ran fifty to sixty pounds for a mounted man who had a horse under him to handle the tactical mobility. Sixteenth-century tilting suits or cleverly engineered garnitures which had come into use by then would run a good deal heavier, in tilting trim, but these suits were in the nature of sporting goods, not war-gear. They optimized for protection at the expense of mobility and would never have been used for warfare. Two basic approaches were taken: either the specialty suit for the tilt alone, latterly with a frogmouthed helm that bolted or attached with hasp and pin to the breast and to the back, or a "garniture," a harness with a great many "pieces of exchange" that could be bolted on (sometimes literally) to adapt a general-purpose plate harness for various courses of the tilt -- such things as the ÃƒÂ©paule-de-mouton and the grandguard, for putting an additional layer of protection on the left side, and reinforcing plackarts in general, and particularly comprehensive and protective, but not very mobile, gauntlets for the left hand, often protecting the arm almost to the elbow. Commonsense, if elaborate, stuff like this went on for a century and more, for those grander nobles who could afford all this extra stuff.

Corwin of ArgentLupe · Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:37 am

Let's see:

10# Burgeonet
38# Chain Hauberk
17# Chain Bishop Mantle
8# Vambraces
10# Knee/Greaves
2# Kidney Belt

Total 85#

Add to that steel-toed boots, padding, weapons, and the occasional shield and I easily hit 100 pounds.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:30 pm

Jehan de Pelham wrote:A typical man at arms in the late fourteenth century bore 50-55 pounds of harness into battle. By the mid fifteenth century this had increased to 55-65 lbs, but it was more complete.

I am sitting at about fifty five pounds, including shoes, underwear, and cloth, for my late 14th century portrayal.

Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus

Hi Jehan,

On what data are you basing these weights?

Firstly the problem regarding the 14th century supposition , I am unaware of any complete late 14th century harness out there to make a comparison, plus the more normal compete hauberk worn beneath needs to be taken into consideration. The average bascinet and aventail combination alone from extant examples seems to weigh more by a third, at least) than a 15th century armet, and certainly more than a sallet and bevor. An ARS member making a tour of some Italian museums made note 14th century breastplates seem to be thicker on average than the 15th century examples.

Secondly, regarding the 15th century comparison - those are heavy suits, as near as I can tell, and I am not sure what you are relying on for a guage of weight. My complete harness, Italian export, with it's grossly overthick cuisse, greaves, and gauntlets, and thicker than needs to be but within the realm of what exists pauldrons weighs in around 65 lbs, including the armet and mail, and I am stouter than the fellows most of those Italian harnesses are made for. Secondly, German harness seems to weigh less than Italian harness, so you have to take that into consideration.

The general thought that I am aware of in the community that armour weight grew, in the 'international style' allwhite era (partially due to the layering of defences), and then shed some weight as metalurgy and form was refeined, and then gained weight again in the 16th century, as it was made to deal with a different parameter of threats.

To the originator of the thread - historical armour weights and recreation armour weights differ considerably. They are made for a different clientel, with a different set of expectations for the armour, and a different set of paramaters as to what the threat guarded against is (as a prime example, the radical differences in helmet weight, due to the concern in guarding against concussion, and the desire not to have ones helmet dented). Many modern helmets for recreation combat weight twice what an original example would have when new.

Dalewyn · Post by **Dalewyn** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:11 pm

I have 2 different kits.
The European kit (Wisby COP, Milanese arms & legs, pauldrons, greaves, gorget, half or full gauntlets, stainless helm) is about 25 lbs.
My Japanese kit (mild helm, full Japanese suit otherwise) is about 20 lbs.
But then again, I'm that "Evil plastic armor guy", and they're both made from HDPE.

M S Anderson · Post by **M S Anderson** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:44 pm

I don't know if you're talking about SCA specific harness or what, but Mine is about 70Lb. (I'm on the left) I think Shane's stuff (the guy on the right) weighs about the same and I guess they are both pretty average mid-14thc style rigs.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/androu/DSCF0008.jpg[/img]

Matt Anderson
ARMA Virginia Beach

Karl Helweg · Post by **Karl Helweg** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:02 pm

Last time I flew with my tourney kit (germanic transitional plate) it came to 72#. This is all stainless and with the chain shirt (13#) which I only wear when I'm showing off.

My Landsknecht kit is around 40# and much opf that is helm but several folks coment that it looks heavy. I'm just getting too fat.

olaf haraldson · Post by **olaf haraldson** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:56 pm

Yeah... lighter guys will be carrying a higher percentage of their body weight as a rule. I only weigh 120, so...

Konstantin the Red wrote:Kniggit, a lot is going to depend on how much you weigh, particularly what fraction of that is muscle.

Li'l weedy guys should probably try and keep it around forty-plus pounds for SCA fighting, exclusive of shield and weapon. Be wary of going over fifty.

Mid-size, fifty-some, et cetera as above. Big guys sixty and more, same guidelines. If you're young, you can guarantee your available weight budget will increase -- as you do.

You've already had the "don't trust the mailshirt weight" lecture, I see. Butted mail is heavy for what protection it gives in the SCA game. Riveted mail is at least ten times as strong as butted on five eighths the weight -- needing several more tools to make, and taking four times as long in manufacture and hardly any time in repair -- your call. Some people just shell out the cash to get it from Indian makers. Again, your call.

Historical field harnesses in plate, cap-ÃƒÂ -pie, ran fifty to sixty pounds for a mounted man who had a horse under him to handle the tactical mobility. Sixteenth-century tilting suits or cleverly engineered garnitures which had come into use by then would run a good deal heavier, in tilting trim, but these suits were in the nature of sporting goods, not war-gear. They optimized for protection at the expense of mobility and would never have been used for warfare. Two basic approaches were taken: either the specialty suit for the tilt alone, latterly with a frogmouthed helm that bolted or attached with hasp and pin to the breast and to the back, or a "garniture," a harness with a great many "pieces of exchange" that could be bolted on (sometimes literally) to adapt a general-purpose plate harness for various courses of the tilt -- such things as the ÃƒÂ©paule-de-mouton and the grandguard, for putting an additional layer of protection on the left side, and reinforcing plackarts in general, and particularly comprehensive and protective, but not very mobile, gauntlets for the left hand, often protecting the arm almost to the elbow. Commonsense, if elaborate, stuff like this went on for a century and more, for those grander nobles who could afford all this extra stuff.

Elize · Post by **Elize** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:54 pm

I am 125# and my combat archery armour is just under 50#. I wear a bascinet, Churburg breast wrap, padded gambeson, welded chain mail shirt, 3/4 legs, fleurey pauldrons, elbows laced on, leather arm guards, and fingered gauntlet.

Jehan de Pelham · Post by **Jehan de Pelham** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:13 pm

"Hi Jehan, On what data are you basing these weights?"

I was there. :lol:

I note that your armor doesn't fall outside my range.

Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:58 pm

[img]http://www.mediumaevum.com/josh/ArmorbyRalph%20045.jpg[/img]

The picture is about a year old and my harness has since evolved, but not too much. Including the pieces not pictured, it weighs about 65 pounds, which is, as an Italian book at the local university library notes, about the same as the harness of Galeazzo d'Arco, which is missing its right arm and a few other bits...

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:36 pm

80-85 pounds depending on what I'm armed with at the time (and if I'm carrying my spiffy buckler I picked up from Mandrake armoury!! It's neat!)

St. George · Post by **St. George** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:17 pm

Helmet with flat ring aventail 12#
shoulders 2# (1# a piece)
vambrace and elbows 2.4# (1.2# a piece)
gamboissed cuisses and "soupcan knees" 4#
boots and greaves 4.4#
segmented breastplate (Churburg style) 6.2#
Gambeson 4#

35# for everything

When I add in a flat ring shirt eventually, I should come to about 47# in total weight. I imagine I could add in steel cuisses for about another 3-4# so all in all still at or under 50 lbs.

Spring steel makes such a huge difference.

Alaric

toweyb · Post by **toweyb** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:34 pm

My full plate & chain kit weighed nearly 90 lbs. I am on a drive to cut that in half.

Ruthardis · Post by **Ruthardis** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:00 am

as I am about two fighters duct taped together, my armour weighs alot. I even used 12g aluminim for most of it over leather. so, for this question, I got out the scale. the armour bag and body armour totals 84 pounds. good movement. but.... since I'm over 400 lbs myself this seems like less. I am currently making suit #3 and have set a firm limit to 40 lbs. including helm. I feel like minimal man. luck for me that I have a viking persona and less armour looks more period!

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:42 am

50 lbs with a weapon. + 230 lbs of my fat ass=280 lbs

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:56 am

Also about 65, which is the weight of the Avant it's based on.

[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/wolf/images/mtt/mtt28.JPG[/img]

Plus another 15 for arming doublet, mail gussets/voiders & mail skirt

What is the weight of you armour?

What is the weight of you armour?

wght

125#