Leather Morions

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:47 pm

I heard a rumor that there were extant example of leather morions. High comb and all. I can't remember who told me about...maybe Talbot? If anyone knows anythign about these, I would LOVE to know where I can find them and learn about them at.

Thanks,
Christopher

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:01 am

Yes, I believe there were, but I can't recall what book they were in...

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:24 am

Hello.

In Jant ArnoldÃ‚Â´s "Patterns of Fashion" there is a late 16th century hat that apes the shape of a morion. I am not sure whether its base construction was made of leather (I doubt it, I think it was linen canvas), but it was covered in heavily embroidered velvet.

Regards

Ivo

Thomas H · Post by **Thomas H** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:42 am

Wait just one minute. i migh have a pic and some info for ya.

EDIT: went and found it. http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lo ... t_id=3XH42

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:45 pm

Sweet link. Wish I could have a close up look at it. Shame on them for selling it before I had a chance at it...lol Thanks.

I'm hoping someone can lead me to the high-combed morion in leather. MRL has one, but I wouldn't know if it's made the same way as the extant leather ones. I can try it in the fashion of the steel ones, but if there are really survivng leather examples, I'd rather use that design for construction.

Thanks,
Christopher

Hew · Post by **Hew** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:51 pm

Ivo wrote:In Jant ArnoldÃ‚Â´s "Patterns of Fashion" there is a late 16th century hat that apes the shape of a morion. I am not sure whether its base construction was made of leather (I doubt it, I think it was linen canvas), but it was covered in heavily embroidered velvet.

I'm pretty sure that was felt, not canvas, but I don't have the book with me.

Jason Grimes · Post by **Jason Grimes** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:08 pm

Hi Thomas,

That is more of a lobster-tail pot then a morion. The closest pic that I have is a leather cabasset that is late 16th century.

http://www.grimmarmoury.com/gallery/vie ... erHelm16_1

And here is another one that is more of a chapel-de-leather...

http://www.grimmarmoury.com/gallery/vie ... erHelm16_2

Hope this helps,

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:36 am

Holy shit, those are great!!! Any idea where those are residing at?

Thanks
Christopher

Kel Rekuta · Post by **Kel Rekuta** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:27 am

Jason Grimes wrote:Hi Thomas,

That is more of a lobster-tail pot then a morion. The closest pic that I have is a leather cabasset that is late 16th century.

http://www.grimmarmoury.com/gallery/vie ... erHelm16_1

And here is another one that is more of a chapel-de-leather...

http://www.grimmarmoury.com/gallery/vie ... erHelm16_2

Hope this helps,

The second bears a strong resemblance, in construction detail, to a fireman's helmet at the Museum of London. The brim of this one isn't as substantial in the back as the MoL example, though.

BTW, hadn't visited your gallery site for quite a while. Nice update, very classy.

Jason Grimes · Post by **Jason Grimes** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:34 pm

RenJunkie wrote:Holy shit, those are great!!! Any idea where those are residing at?

Thanks
Christopher

Hi Christopher,

They currently reside in the Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin.

Jason Grimes · Post by **Jason Grimes** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:35 pm

Kel Rekuta wrote:BTW, hadn't visited your gallery site for quite a while. Nice update, very classy.

Thanks, as always a work in progress.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:14 pm

Kel Rekuta wrote:
Jason Grimes wrote:Hi Thomas,

That is more of a lobster-tail pot then a morion. The closest pic that I have is a leather cabasset that is late 16th century.

http://www.grimmarmoury.com/gallery/vie ... erHelm16_1

And here is another one that is more of a chapel-de-leather...

http://www.grimmarmoury.com/gallery/vie ... erHelm16_2

Hope this helps,

The second bears a strong resemblance, in construction detail, to a fireman's helmet at the Museum of London. The brim of this one isn't as substantial in the back as the MoL example, though.

BTW, hadn't visited your gallery site for quite a while. Nice update, very classy.

Hi Kel, yes one wonders if they are items of military equipment or not. I had laboured under the delusion that coiled rope was used for military helmets in Germany, in the 15th century, until I was told by a well informed person on the subject that they were labourers hard hats, essentially, and you find a fair number in 15th century German art showing the trades (carpenters & builders).

Obviously the cabasset was a lightweight alternative to an iron one, I am leary of relegating anything to parade use just because it is odd, but it seems contrary to the trend of thicker, heavier armours being used on the battlefield, and so it might be for other than battlefield use - perhaps a light duty guard hat, or the like.

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:56 pm

I doubt these would have been combat helmets, but I love parade armors, and especially those in leather...lol. I mean they would have been better than hair, but they woulda been real expensive for pretty light protection. Still, leather is my medium (poor tho I be at it), and if it existed in leather, I wanna make it...lol

Thanks,
Christopher

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:01 pm

I doubt these would have been combat helmets, but I love parade armors, and especially those in leather...lol. I mean they would have been better than hair, but they woulda been real expensive for pretty light protection. Still, leather is my medium (poor tho I be at it), and if it existed in leather, I wanna make it...lol

Thanks,
Christopher

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