12th Century German Armor sources?

Anjouleme · Post by **Anjouleme** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:30 pm

Greetings!

Luther (seen here: http://65.64.145.141/photos/images/Crown-Nov2004/photos/photo_48.html) is looking to potentially change up his look a little to better suit his persona. I'm looking to get some help in acquiring information regarding late 12th Century German armor. Anyone out there have any pics of good examples and options? I have a decent knowledge of the 14th C English and French kit, but I'm completely at a loss for 12th C German.

Thanks all!

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:17 pm

Lots of mail is just about your only option.

Anjouleme · Post by **Anjouleme** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:54 am

Lotsa mail. Got it. It seems that Western European Armor during the time was primarily composed of mail. However, he's also trying to determine what helm styles would have been in use. Is something like this his only option:

(Michael Nymandus (in black and gold) is a german persona of roughly the same time period)
http://65.64.145.141/photos/images/Crown-May2004/photos/photo_30.html
http://65.64.145.141/photos/images/Crown-May2004/photos/photo_31.html

Ezsa · Post by **Ezsa** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:23 am

Oh sure Cassandra, post these pictures to make me home sick! Make me miss my Sile!

Since Giles has been playing 11th Cen Anglo-Saxon, and now going for a 14th Cen kit, i really don't know much about the men in 12th Cen even though this is the time i portray. There also is not much talk about armor on the 12th Cen mailing list.

Have you tried to contact Sir Mathieu de la Croix? I can't think of any other 12th Cen fighters off hand.

Wishing you many reasons to smile today.................
EzaBella

Thaddeus · Post by **Thaddeus** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:59 pm

That style of helm (commonly reffered to as a Saltshaker here) is likely for a Ritter in the late 12th century and into the early 13th. See the silver shrine of Charlemagne in Achen for contemporary bas relief illustrations. Other options would be a round topped nasal helm, or possibly a kettle hat, all late in the 12th century. Earlier on you would still have the conical helms popular in the previous century. These were likely raised from a single piece at this point. Body armour is maille or a padded gambeson.

Ezsa · Post by **Ezsa** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:10 pm

Cassandra,

Here is a pic of Syr Eduard (sp)

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:48 pm

Anjouleme wrote: However, he's also trying to determine what helm styles would have been in use. Is something like this his only option:

(Michael Nymandus (in black and gold) is a german persona of roughly the same time period)
http://65.64.145.141/photos/images/Crown-May2004/photos/photo_30.html
http://65.64.145.141/photos/images/Crown-May2004/photos/photo_31.html

Hey, Casandra, if Luther decides to go with the Saltshaker I have one sitting in my living room that I just bought that is just a little to small for my head. It is a really nice looking one. (Actually it is one of Halbreds) I could be talked into selling it.

Anjouleme · Post by **Anjouleme** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:56 am

Ezsa: That kit of Eduard's is the bomb! Luther and I both have seen him in it, so he'll definitely get the reference. Do you know if its specifically German, though? I thought it was Norman, but I cannot remember for sure. Luther is currently fighting in a phrygian style helm, but its not nearly as pretty as Eduard's after all these years of use. Oh and I'll pass your sentiments to Sile when next I see her.

Aiden: Luther may be interested in that helm. We should talk. Do you have any pics of it? I know you guys aren't going to the Ozarks this weekend, but will you be at Spring Fling or Melon Wars? If so, he could take a look at it there. He's got a big 'ole melon though :shock:

, so if its small on you, it may be smalll on him. If nothing else, I'm sure he'd love a look at it. Let me know what works for you.

William of Otterton · Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:18 pm

There's lots of pics of HRH Prince Sir Edouard's kit on Ealdormere's top-notch photographer Eirik Andersen's site http://www.tworavens.org/gallery/2004 under the Fall Crown 2004 - specifically pages 8 & 9 from the final round. This is probably the best collection of Ealdormere photography anywhere around.

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:45 am

After originally thinking this style of armour was appropriate to the late 12th century, on looking at a lot of contemporary pics it appears to me that the "transition" helmet (ie with a face mask but not yet a proper barrel helm) doesn't seem to ahve come in till a couple of decades alter. Examples from the late 12th century are http://www.renfroana.150m.com/liberadhonorem.htm (produced in Italy, under the Emperor - a German - about 1195), http://bugpowder.com/andy/e.winchester-bible.html (English, 1160-1180), http://www.clues.abdn.ac.uk:8080/bestia ... lysis.html (see the Bonnacon and the Tiger), plus the attachments below - from a Templar Chapel of the late 12th century in France, and of King Stephen and his warriors produced in England in 1200.

As far as I'm aware, there was very little difference between what was used by the Germans and the French and English at this time.

Elias mac Griogair · Post by **Elias mac Griogair** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:26 pm

[quote="Ezsa"]Oh sure Cassandra, post these pictures to make me home sick! Make me miss my Sile!

Since Giles has been playing 11th Cen Anglo-Saxon, and now going for a 14th Cen kit, i really don't know much about the men in 12th Cen even though this is the time i portray. There also is not much talk about armor on the 12th Cen mailing list.

Ezsa,

since Giles is going 14th century now can I have his kit

hope everything is going well for you in Drachenwald, and could you post some links for a 11th/12th century Norman womans kit? I have several friends that are interested in this area.

Elias
(Ezsa's lil pitbull

)

Trevor · Post by **Trevor** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:10 pm

Checking my Osprey title "German Medieval Armies 1000-1300", I see some examples of flat-topped helmets ("Salt-shaker") and some semi-round topped helmets.

The semi-round topped helmets can be made with compressor housings, and a decent sized occularia to boot. Fortunately, this will reduce the cost of the helmet considerably (though compressor housings are mild steel and not stainless).

I am computer-stupid, and have no idea how to post pics, but I'd think that getting that Osprey title would be be worth $10 to Sir Luther...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... s&n=507846