Historic Enterprises Order, what to include?

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:18 pm

Hey guys,

I'm planning on getting together a full set of 14th century clothing for use under my SCA armor as well as event-going. Eventually, I'll have a woredrobe, but for now I have to stick with the basics and get one "complete" outfit.

I'll be fighting as a Southern German knight from about 1340. I plan on using purple as my main color.

This is what I think I'll be getting. Please note that I'll be either purchasing turnshoes or making them myself at a later date, and will be using some a bit less period for the time being!

-St. Louis shirt
-Bocksten tunic in "dusty purple"
-14th century braises
-14th century chausses in "dusty purple"
-A Nockert Type III/Norlund Type II hood in "plum"
-Garters in "gold"
-14th/15th century belt in "brown"

The one worry that I have is that I will be REALLY purple when I just have the clothing on! I want the chausses to be purple, so that it'll be visible while I wear my armor since the tunic will be covered in a white aketon and the hood won't be worn during combat. But, with just the clothing on, for event-going and such, does anything think I'll look TOO purplish?

Lemme' know what you guys think about the order! I really don't want to screw up, since it's a $300 commitment!

-Gregory-

Gwynnin · Post by **Gwynnin** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:22 pm

Get a non purple hood -- the different purples will look off, and the hood is a good place to throw in some contrast.

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:28 pm

Yeah, I was actually just thinkin' about that. The only color options that they have for the hood are black, forest green, royal blue, plum and red. I think that with the gold garters and brass/bronze fittings on them and the belt, which have the same shiny gold look, and the brown leather on the belt and shoes that the royal blue will look best with the purple.

Sound like a good set and color options? Blue hood, purple tunic, white undershirt and braises, purple chausses and gold and brown on the fittings/leather parts?

-Gregory-

Amalric Unomen · Post by **Amalric Unomen** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:23 pm

Are the chausses linen or wool? I have two pairs of the linen, and they do not fit nearly as well as the wool. The Linen sags much more and is not all that much cooler. As to colors, ask them when you place the order. They are always very helpful, and women are usually far better with colors than men.

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:43 pm

I've decided to get the wool chausses and tunic. I'll ask about the colors, as well.

-Gregory-

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:36 am

Yes, I agree. I like blue, and attempted to put together a whole blue 14th C. outfit at Pennsic one year. Gwen pretty much had a fit, and I ended up with three different colours for hosen, both linen and wool, none of which were blue! I'd follow her advice, you'll look better in the long run, at least to the ladies, and who else actually matters?

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:55 am

Yellow or blue will compliment purple and themselves well. Don't go over board with one color.

Karl · Post by **Karl** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:47 am

I've fought in HE's wool Bocksten tunic and later a linen G63 gown; they are made of garment-weight fabrics and do not hold up well to SCA combat. Duct taped sticks get frayed and they tend to pull apart the wool fabric. Forget the linen - my G63 looks like it went through a shredder.

I would recommend that you ask Gwen if her people can make you a custom fighting tunic out of a heavier fabric. I'm waiting on a Revival Clothing gambeson to come into stock now but I think that a "fighting-weight linen G63" would be perfect as that's the only garment I've found that has no restriction on movement whatsoever and can dry out really fast at events.

In any case I've seen a person wearing exactly what you describe in the colors and I thought it looked okay with steel armour on to break up the mass plum / purple.

You know who I think has a really outstanding eye for fashion is Gretchen at Mandrake Armoury. They resell HE's clothing and her husband always looks tops (it's all he wears). She really takes time to match things to your complexion, etc.

I bought a gold wheat-color BSD linen gown from them at Gulf Wars and I received tons of compliments on it later that night (and I would have never chosen that color for myself, thanks Gretchen).

Hope this helps,
Karl

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:48 am

Sadly, the wool items aren't available in purple in wool, so these are the colors I'm getting:

-Grey wool chausses
-Blue-grey wool tunic
-Royal blue hood

Karl, thanks for the information. I don't think I'll be worrying about fraying, etc... I'm going to be wearing an aketon over the whole shirt, and greaves/poleyns over the exposed chausses during combat.

-Gregory-

Jean Richard Malcolmson · Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:38 am

Purple and Green with Gold trim is always a good choice!!

Regards,
Jean Richard
Ansteorra

Jeffrey Hedgecock · Post by **Jeffrey Hedgecock** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:59 am

Hi all,

As most of you know, we do our best to replicate garments according to their historical materials and uses. It should be known that the historical originals upon which we base our Bocksten Tunic and G63 gown mentioned above are garments found entirely in civilian contexts and there is no precedent for their use in a military context. It's not surprising that the gown didn't hold up for wear with armour, as that's not what it's intended to be used for. Please understand that while we do our absolute best to make the highest quality products possible, we can't guarantee the durability of our products when used in ways for which they were not intended nor designed.

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:52 pm

Thanks for posting Jeffery, and everyone else! I'm in the middle of making my order, now, actually! After I get this order in, and get to inspect the sizing and quality for myself, I hopefully plan to make another order in the near future. I'll get an extra Saint Louis shirt, braies and maybe some other minor trinkets, like extra garters.

I do NOT plan on wearing my tunic in combat, only the shirt, over which I'll have a padded aketon. I've decided to get linen for my tunic, and wool for the chausses.

The colors are charcoal chausses, blue tunic, red hood and garters over the white braies and undershirt.

Those are the six items that the order includes! Can't wait to get them in!

Cheers!

-Gregory-

Edward de la Pole · Post by **Edward de la Pole** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:47 am

I have been happy with my HE/Blackswan outfits. I have had my outfit for 5 years now and haven't had a lick of problems with it.

Have you thought about ordering their complete outfits? They seem to be in the price range you are likely to spend anyway...

I have never heard a complaint regarding HE or Blackswan from anybody who has bought from them. Enjoy!

Amalric Unomen · Post by **Amalric Unomen** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:04 am

I have several HE outfits, and the only complaint I have regards the color fastness of one linen tunic. All of the other linen pieces were fine. you might be a little careful when you wash yours.

David Teague · Post by **David Teague** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:17 am

Amalric Unomen wrote:I have several HE outfits, and the only complaint I have regards the color fastness of one linen tunic. All of the other linen pieces were fine. you might be a little careful when you wash yours.

Wash???

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:51 am

you might be a little careful when you wash yours.

That's what I was thinking too, David... I'll only be taking the linen items to the dry-cleaners, actually. Pure linen is pretty hard to wash correctly, and my mom said she doesn't want to chance it.

Anyway, the order went through last night, and I'm crossing my fingers that the six ordered items were all in-stock, so that I'll get them in a few days (since I'm in California, too!)

-Gregory-

Edward de la Pole · Post by **Edward de la Pole** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:29 am

Gregory J. Liebau wrote:(since I'm in California, too!)

ummm... hate to break this to you, but you are in Dinuba... nobody outside of Dinuba considers it California :wink:

Good luck with your kit.

Amalric Unomen · Post by **Amalric Unomen** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:16 am

The tags say you can wash them, and I have never had them shrink. Not too many dry cleaners in the 14th century.

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:22 am

I wash my linen stuff in the machine all the time...it just gets softer. Linen is strong fabric, it isn't delicate.

Black Swan Designs · Post by **Black Swan Designs** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:10 pm

Hi folks-

I've been watching this thread since it showed up, and it's probably time I stuck my 2Ã‚Â¢ in. Don't want anyone to think I'm not paying attention. :wink:

First, I'd like to remind everyone (and this includes you, Gregory!) that we are ALWAYS happy to help someone with their order. We have 3 people ready to pick up the phone during business hours, and any one of us are delighted to be of assistance. Don't forget that you have to make your selections based on the colour names on the order form, but we can look at the colours and fabrics in person. If colour, fit and fabric are important to you, please don't hesitate to call. You can get opinions from your chums on a board, but you're giving your hard earned cash to us, so please ask us for help.

As regards washing linen, please take Amalric's advice and read the care tags sewn into your garments. I have them printed specifically for me to my specs, for my clothing. If the tag says "machine wash", then go ahead and machine wash. If the tag says "Dry Clean Only", then do so. If you follow the care labels and wash a garment that has a "machine wash" label in it and it falls apart or something weird happens to the fabric, let me know and I'll replace it. I have a 1 year guarantee on clothing. It may help you to know that anything that says it can be machine washed already has been. I can also tell you that we do things to the clothes that we don't expect you to as a quality control test, so wash with confidence-- following the instructions on the care label of course!

As for colour fastness, I admit we have a bit of trouble with the reds. I'd advise anyone who orders a dark colour to wash the garment separately the first time and throw a cup of salt and a cup of vinegar into the wash. That should help fix the dye. Beyond that, you can always overdye your clothing if the colour fades more than you like. Francena overdyes her gowns about once a year because she likes to machine wash them and the colour fades. She uses Rit dye following the instructions on the package to keep the colour fresh.

Finally, customer satisfaction is our #1 priority, so please, please, please call us if you'd like help with your order! We're here to assist, and love to help folks put together their perfect outfit.

Gwen
Black Swan Designs

David Teague · Post by **David Teague** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:38 pm

I was implying as LH people we don't wash our stuff at all... :shock:

For that grubby on the march look. :wink:

Oh, and linen has had major problems with fading thoughout history... I don't mind faded, grubby tunics and hose at all.

See below:

Other than the jack and leather goods, it's all H.E./ BlackSwan... :wink:

Cheers,

DT

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:30 pm

Their clothes rock

I've worn one set of hose to fight in for about 5 years now (yes i wash them)

They have small holes in the heel and toe and a few little nips from armour but are still very much "alive"

The other sets i wear without armour look almost new.
The only problems i have ever had with HE garb is that after 2 or 3 years the drawstrings break in the braise if you fight in them over and over.

Man that 15 minutes to fix that sure is a pain. heheheheh

I wash all my dark garb in "Wollite dark" and have no problems with it fading.

I wish my real clothes held up as well.

Karl i dunno what you did to your gown but it sounds like it constitutes "gross abuse" of the garment.

When will HE have some legs in stock again???

Edward de la Pole · Post by **Edward de la Pole** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:57 pm

Because color and material varies from batch to batch, when I was shopping for my stuff, Gwen sent me a mess of swatches so I could see what color I was getting... not just a description.

Black Swan Designs · Post by **Black Swan Designs** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:00 pm

Karl's comments regarding asking me to make Ã¢â‚¬Å“fighting weightÃ¢â‚¬Â

Black Swan Designs · Post by **Black Swan Designs** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:04 pm

Oh, I should also add- Gregory, check your email. Francena called to discuss your order with you and wound up talking to your mom, so I've sent a follow up email.

Gwen

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:13 pm

"You know the only reason Murdock's clothes have lasted so long is because he only fights in them once a year. Wink (Only ribbing you Murdock, you know I love ya!) "

Actually it's cause i get hit in the head most of the time.

Karl · Post by **Karl** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:20 pm

This thread isn't about me, and I don't want it to be, so I'll respond to this and be done.

Karl i dunno what you did to your gown but it sounds like it constitutes "gross abuse" of the garment.

Sure you do; I wore it in the SCA to fight in. The cost of the garment isn't a lot of money for me and I'm pretty sure I'm not the first man throughout the history of Western civilization to take the field in a linen shirt. :lol:

I had no idea that Karl was using his G63 for combat, and am frankly astonished that it survived much past the first bout- I can't think of a garment less suited to a combat situation!

No exaggeration there, I'm sure. :roll:

You know what was really encouraging is all the compliments I received while wearing it - I wouldn't know if anyone had ever tried fighting in a G63 before to but it looked really cool while it lasted.

I think the G63 gown is a really great pattern to fight in; it moves extremely well with the underarms and large sleeves, it looks about a million times better than a t-tunic, and most importantly after a very hard day I could rinse it off with a water hose and it would be dry in the morning.

Anyway since this is a classifieds forum if anyone out there is making linen canvas G63's with cloth buttons in a red that won't bleed, I'm buying.

Update: commission accepted & paid for, thanks SC. If it works I'll be a happy dude.

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:24 am

Hey folks,

I was at a track meet in Coalinga until 11:00 last night, so I didn't get online. Sorry I haven't responded yet! Gwen, I got the email, but my mom explained the situation first, and she called before that. I won't be replyin' to that one, which I'm sure you've figured out by now...

I decided to stay with my color options because I actually would like a brighter outfit for this one. My Egyptian stuff is nearly all white, with some red thrown in. The Mycenaean will be all white, with some dark blues and purples for trim, and a touch of gold. The Viking stuff is black and either blue or green, depending on the tunic. I wanted more variety with this outfit, so I chose the charcoal chausses, blue tunic, red hood and garters!

My mom called HE no more than half an hour ago to confirm my choices, and I already got an email that the items have been shipped! Wonderfully fast service, there!

Thanks!

I leave this thread to R.I.P...

Except, Edward. Where the heck in California are you from to know where Dinuba is? We're one of dozens of medium sized towns in the central valley, so you must be close by!

-Gregory-

Greylond · Post by **Greylond** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:20 pm

Nah, Edward just thinks that anything north of the Santa Ana's is "the Boonies."

Edward de la Pole · Post by **Edward de la Pole** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:46 pm

Greylond wrote:Nah, Edward just thinks that anything north of the Santa Ana's is "the Boonies."

That's kind of harsh... I draw my line at the Palmdale/Lancaster line :twisted:

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:01 pm

Lolol, I happen to draw my line somewhere at the borders on each side, I suppose. It only seems relevant!

-Gregory-

justuspr · Post by **justuspr** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:07 pm

For those of us that grew up in Dinuba, its the only part of California that matters, no one in their right mind would want to live South of there

Justus
(Went to Dinuba high freshman year, but moved and finished in Reedley)

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:54 pm

For those of us that grew up in Dinuba, its the only part of California that matters, no one in their right mind would want to live South of there

Haha! That's so true... Headed south past Tulare and west past Hanford, there really isn't much in the valley! The Central Valley is where it's all at, and Dinuba even more. We're smack dab in the middle of everything, with Fresno, Visalia, and the mountains all close by.

I'm a sophomore at DHS right now, and have lived in Dinuba my whole life. I love this place. When's the last time you've been here, Justus? The population is currently 18,600. The old Maya theatre is a church as of a few months ago, we have a bowling alley and a nice 6 screen theatre now, too! We have one of three or four Best Buy storage centers in California, a large Bret's auto center, and a Wal-Mart is going in.

Reedley's nice, but it's no Dinuba. I like Reedley's Save Mart, personally... Haha.

-Gregory-

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:50 pm

Hey guys! I got my order in today! Everything fits perfectly, and I have not had any problem with the braies slipping. They held the chausses, which are a tad bit loose (except in the feet, where they're a PERFECT fit, down to a slight squeeze!) and I had no problems sitting, jumpin' around a bit, and walking. I didn't have them on too long, though.

The shirt and tunic have such an authentic feel! I don't have any dagger, a proper belt, pouch or shoes to wear with this outfit yet. But I like it so much I'm going to take it to the Ren' faire this weekend anyway, as is!

I'm going to cut a bit of the "tail" off of the hood, because without wrapping it around the front of my neck at least once, it drags on the ground. I'm gonna' cut it just a bit shorter, so that it doesn't lose it's prominent look.

THANK YOU BLACK SWAN DESIGNS/HISTORIC ENTERPRISES!

I leave you with a large image of your local living history teen...

-Gregory-

[img]http://yoyofreak.net/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=3132[/img]

Black Swan Designs · Post by **Black Swan Designs** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:18 am

Glad to hear you're happy with everything!

A suggestion on the tail situation (hopefully you haven't cut it off yet!)- do what medieval people did and loop it through your belt in the back to keep it off the ground. There's a picture of the tail worn this way on our website- http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart ... &p=120&c=7

Gwen