Hi,
Could anyone give me the requirments for the screen on this type of armour.
I came across a real nice piece of hardware cloth and thought of the mask on fencing helms.
Thanks,
Hal
Fencing face screen?
Fencing face screen?
Happy Metal Pounding
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Hew
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http://sca.org/officers/marshal/combat/ ... _rules.pdf
I'm guessing that section A.ii is what you want to know.
"Offset" - is that the distance between hole centres?
I think (but don't know for sure) that this specifically disallows diamond-patterned expanded sheet metal.
Here's a blurb about punch testers: http://www.musketeer.org/safety/mask-punch.html
This is not to be confused with the "drop-tester" - http://www.eastkingdom.org/fencing/EKRa ... dix_B.html - for testing body armour.
AFAIK, the punch test is primarily to see if the strands in a woven wire mask will separate, allowing the point to wedge through. Not so much an issue for perforated sheet metal, but you still have to worry about denting.
Some time ago, I thought I saw a supplier (like Leon Paul or some such) for replacement wire mesh for FIE masks, but I haven't found it recently.
[added]
Oh yeah:
"The face must be covered by either 12 kilogram mesh (e.g, a standard fencing mask) or perforated metal. Such metal ...[snip]... shall also meet the definition of rigid material..."
A. HEAD AND NECK:
i. The front and top of the head must be covered by rigid material to below the jaw line and behind the ears. Standard 12 kg fencing masks are known to meet this standard. If built to this standard, fencing helms are also acceptable.
ii. The face must be covered by either 12 kilogram mesh (e.g, a standard fencing mask) or perforated metal. Such metal must not have holes larger than 1/8" (3 mm) in diameter, with a minimum offset of 3/16" (5 mm) and shall also meet the definition of rigid material.
iii. Masks and helms must be secured to the fighter, so that they cannot be easily removed or dislodged during combat. The combination of snug fit and the spring-tongue in a conventional fencing mask is NOT sufficient, by itself, to secure the mask to the fighter.
iv. Both modern fencing masks and rapier helms, when inspected, shall comply with the rigid material standard, provisions on facial coverage, and shall show no evidence of impending failure (e.g., rust which weakens the metal involved, dents or other defects which spread open mesh, broken weld points, etc). If there is concern about the face mesh of a modern fencing mask, it should be tested using a standard commercial 12kg mask punch. Marshals doing the testing shall be trained in the use of the punch. The Kingdom Rapier Marshals may elect to designate certain deputies to administer such testing.
I'm guessing that section A.ii is what you want to know.
"Offset" - is that the distance between hole centres?
I think (but don't know for sure) that this specifically disallows diamond-patterned expanded sheet metal.
Here's a blurb about punch testers: http://www.musketeer.org/safety/mask-punch.html
This is not to be confused with the "drop-tester" - http://www.eastkingdom.org/fencing/EKRa ... dix_B.html - for testing body armour.
AFAIK, the punch test is primarily to see if the strands in a woven wire mask will separate, allowing the point to wedge through. Not so much an issue for perforated sheet metal, but you still have to worry about denting.
Some time ago, I thought I saw a supplier (like Leon Paul or some such) for replacement wire mesh for FIE masks, but I haven't found it recently.
[added]
Oh yeah:
"The face must be covered by either 12 kilogram mesh (e.g, a standard fencing mask) or perforated metal. Such metal ...[snip]... shall also meet the definition of rigid material..."
C. Rigid Material: puncture-resistant material that will not significantly flex, spread apart, or deform under pressure of 12 Kg applied by a standard mask tester, repeatedly to any single point. Examples of rigid material are:
-- 22 gauge stainless steel (0.8 mm)
-- 20 gauge mild steel (1.0 mm)
-- 16 gauge aluminum, copper, or brass (1.6 mm)
-- one layer of heavy leather (8 ounce, 4 mm)
"It is a primitive form of thought that things exist or do not exist." - Sir Arthur Eddington
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Hew
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One more thing.
Typically, you should have a swatches of the same fabrics used in the body armour, stapled together. A marshal can then test the swatch, date it, and sign it. This doesn't cover the "periodic testing" but is okay for new equipment.
I suspect it would be a real good idea for you to have a sample of the wire cloth punch tested by a marshal, and keep some sort of documentation of the test for yourself and for the person who is going to use the mask.
That being said, I've never seen anybody have their commercially-made FIE mesh mask punch tested. Usually, they just look at it for dents and rust. I have heard of a cheap mask (bought on eBay) bounced because the face mesh obviously was not rigid enough, just by pressing your thumb on it. If you're going to make a rapier helm with a non-official wire mesh visor though, I imagine it would be subjected to more scrutiny than perforated sheet steel one. (Just cover your ass, is all I'm saying.)
disclaimer: I'm not a Rapier Marshal of any kind.
8. PERIODIC TESTING OF PROTECTIVE GEAR: Kingdoms shall require all gear to have been formally tested (including fabric and mask tests, as appropriate) at least once every two years.
Compliance is the responsibility of the individual fighter. Any protective gear may be formally tested if there is concern that the gear may have lost protective ability due to age, wear and tear, or other factors. Refer to Appendix 1 on Testing Standards.
Typically, you should have a swatches of the same fabrics used in the body armour, stapled together. A marshal can then test the swatch, date it, and sign it. This doesn't cover the "periodic testing" but is okay for new equipment.
I suspect it would be a real good idea for you to have a sample of the wire cloth punch tested by a marshal, and keep some sort of documentation of the test for yourself and for the person who is going to use the mask.
That being said, I've never seen anybody have their commercially-made FIE mesh mask punch tested. Usually, they just look at it for dents and rust. I have heard of a cheap mask (bought on eBay) bounced because the face mesh obviously was not rigid enough, just by pressing your thumb on it. If you're going to make a rapier helm with a non-official wire mesh visor though, I imagine it would be subjected to more scrutiny than perforated sheet steel one. (Just cover your ass, is all I'm saying.)
disclaimer: I'm not a Rapier Marshal of any kind.
"It is a primitive form of thought that things exist or do not exist." - Sir Arthur Eddington
Alcyoneus wrote:The TI from about a year ago had the specs needed to make one legal. I'll pull it out later...
Kevin, the author, posted the link on the archive recently. Do a search to find it. I made the early 13th century helm shown. If you're going to dish the perforated metal it needs to be smaller than the max hole size. If I were to make that particular helm again, I would want to use the smaller hole material in the dished area (it stretches to the limits) and the max holes over the eyes. Do what ever you need to in order to look straight through the holes. Otherwise you'll be looking at the thickness of the metal instead of your opponent.
Jacob
