Feasability of Greathelm/bascinet combo for SCA

Henry of Bexley · Post by **Henry of Bexley** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:40 am

Okay, I've officially got a complete 14th century hard kit. And now I wanna make it better.

I'm gonna be making a new greathelm shortly and was kinda curious- I know small bascinets were used under greathelms during the early 14th century- does anyone here have practical experience with this setup for SCA?

Kenwrec Wulfe · Post by **Kenwrec Wulfe** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:06 am

Greets Horradrick,

I have researched this a bit, but have not executed it myself. I do know (I think it is Sir Gaston) someone on the archive with a gorgeous kit done in the style you are doing yours.

Let me see if I can find the pic.

BTW - have not heard from you in a bit, how goes?

Henry of Bexley · Post by **Henry of Bexley** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:20 am

Wulfe, PMing ya.

I've got the pics of ALL of Sir Gaston's kits... perhaps he could chime in on this?

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:06 am

There was an Ansteorran knight that used to do this years ago.

Henry of Bexley · Post by **Henry of Bexley** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:13 pm

Okay, this is more a question for you marshalls out there: If the bascinet is merely there for authenticity's sake and will never be fought in alone, could it be less than 16 ga.? Just wondering about weight saving options. Of course the other thing I was thinking about would be to make both helmets legal to fight in by themselves with a few quick changes- that way I could change based on what the situaion warranted.

carlyle · Post by **carlyle** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:20 pm

This has been done by both Sir Hrothgar of Farley (probably the Ansteorran knight Alc refers to, now living in Aethelmarc, I believe) and Duke Albert von Drachenweldt (formerly of the Midrealm, now living in the Outlands). Albert was doing this as far back as the mid '70's; Hrothgar when I fought him in '85.

Hope this helps... AoC

Asbjorn Johansen · Post by **Asbjorn Johansen** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:51 am

Horradrick wrote:Okay, this is more a question for you marshalls out there: If the bascinet is merely there for authenticity's sake and will never be fought in alone, could it be less than 16 ga.? Just wondering about weight saving options. Of course the other thing I was thinking about would be to make both helmets legal to fight in by themselves with a few quick changes- that way I could change based on what the situaion warranted.

As long as the outer helm met the gauge requirments, and you had some form of padding or equivallent, I don't see it being a problem.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:10 am

Horradrick wrote:Okay, this is more a question for you marshalls out there: If the bascinet is merely there for authenticity's sake and will never be fought in alone, could it be less than 16 ga.? Just wondering about weight saving options. Of course the other thing I was thinking about would be to make both helmets legal to fight in by themselves with a few quick changes- that way I could change based on what the situaion warranted.

HE Sir Eiringlen did the greathelm/bascinet combo for a Pas once. It looked sweet. The Bascinet was open faced with an aventail and the Greathelm sat over the top. It made for a real nice look.

The only problem he had was that with 2 helmets on his blow acknowledgement was WAY off to his head. (His words) that and his chin strap for his greathelm kept lipping off during combat.

As for marshallette.
As long as the outer helm meets SCA regs it makes no difference what you wear inside.

BTW, Valentine Armouries, has a great special going on:
http://www.varmouries.com/vspecial.html

A quick and cheap way to get yourself a Bascinet.

Koredono · Post by **Koredono** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:23 pm

carlyle wrote:This has been done by both Sir Hrothgar of Farley (probably the Ansteorran knight Alc refers to, now living in Aethelmarc, I believe) and Duke Albert von Drachenweldt (formerly of the Midrealm, now living in the Outlands). Albert was doing this as far back as the mid '70's; Hrothgar when I fought him in '85.

Hope this helps... AoC

Alfred, you're showing your age

(not that mine's any less)

Sir Hrothgar hasn't been actively fighting for 15 years or so (and I do so miss him greatly), and has been living in the East that whole time (becoming a tenured professor at a small college); I strongly suspect that he was the only knight in Ansteorra in that era who fought in the bascinet + great helm style, even on somewhat rare occasions.

But yes, I remember being his shieldman at Pennsic XVII when he fought polearm in bascinet and great helm; his opinion at the time was that for being effective in combat, it was awful, but it was all worth it for the looks on everyone's faces when, during a hold, he would take off his great helm, and they could all see he'd been wearing a bascinet underneath!
Then again, this is the same man who brought four full kits to his first major tourney after moving to what is now AEthelmearc, so he could change armours between rounds of the tourney.

If I recall correctly, the greathelm was sized for the bascinet, not for his head (thus, he couldn't fight in the great helm without the bascinet), and was padded appropriate so as to not damage either helmet in the process. To counter the effect of having so much extra padding and metal and air space, he pretty much took any shot that was clean, since gauging calibration in it was somewhat difficult.

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:46 pm

Tallish, skinny? I remember him taking a blow as having 'stunned' him...

carlyle · Post by **carlyle** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:48 pm

Alc: "I remember him taking a blow as having 'stunned' him..."

That's Hrothgar's trademark. Fun as all hell. Also "screamed" in agony to call a limb shot... AoC

blackbow · Post by **blackbow** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:40 am

[quote="InsaneIrish]
The only problem he had was that with 2 helmets on his blow acknowledgement was WAY off to his head. (His words) that and his chin strap for his greathelm kept lipping off during combat.

As for marshallette.
As long as the outer helm meets SCA regs it makes no difference what you wear inside.

BTW, Valentine Armouries, has a great special going on:
http://www.varmouries.com/vspecial.html

A quick and cheap way to get yourself a Bascinet.[/quote]

Know what? If you're bongo enough to wear two helmets on your head for the sake of authenticity (I thought it was only for certain jousts that they did that?), i hereby declare you to be unkillable from a head shot.

LOL

Regards,

Jonathan Blackbow

Koredono · Post by **Koredono** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:03 pm

carlyle wrote:
Alcyoneus wrote:Tallish, skinny? I remember him taking a blow as having 'stunned' him...

That's Hrothgar's trademark. Fun as all hell. Also "screamed" in agony to call a limb shot... AoC

Yep. that's him.

I remember him flinging himself backwards through the air while loosing a bloodcurdling scream, to lie limp on the ground upon impact, at a tourney, shortly after he moved to Debatable Lands - the chirurgeons rushed the field, and then got pissed when they realized he was just being dramatic as he sat up laughing ...

He's a great guy; I wish he had time to come around, even just to see him again.

Found I had a couple of old pictures of Hrothgar: