Leather Tsubo Suneate (Finished Pics!!)

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:05 pm

Greetings all,

Yes, I am finally progressing on another full Japanese harness in leather. This suit will have several SCAisms. The client has expressed that they are more interested in the overall appearance and flavor, so some of my interpretations will be off, but I am trying to capture the essense of overall harness.

What I am working on this month is the suneate or greaves. The tusbo suneate have what appear to be knees that were used to protect knees and thighs while on horse back. This translates really well to required knee protection for the SCA.

This pair are being adapted primarily from this photo, provided by my first customer that was interested in a Japanese harness. I believe it originaly came from Effingham's web site, (a very informative site for all of those interested in making very authentic looking Japenese harness!)

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/suneateset6S.jpg">

The over all pattern will look like this before shaping:

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/masuneate4.jpg">

This next picture is of the individual knee pieces. The triangle shaped piece on the bottom there is my standard "floating" knee cop from my shovel greave pattern. I will attach very similar to my shovel greave pattern so that when the knee is bent the top of the knee will still be covered, as per SCA standards.

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/masuneate2.jpg">

This last picture of the individual lower greave portion. The center piece will get creased and dished like the picture of the authentic piece above, with the calf portions dished.

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/masuneate3.jpg">

I will post more pics as the project progresses.

Mykaru · Post by **Mykaru** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:12 pm

It looks interesting. One suggestion. The inside piece is always short (about the length of the calf muscle only). It doesn't extend down to the ankle. The outside piece should be wider however.

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:05 pm

Thanks for the props. <G>

You know, there actually is a real pattern for a tsubo suneate -- and the top plates -- on my website. Coulda saved you some time.

Effingham

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:39 am

Thanks for the suggestions, gentlemen. Eff, I went to your site and found the pattern, but couldn't find the upper plates.

I modified the lower portion to better match the pattern and all of the pics I have accumilated. This is like relearning armouring! A whole different kind of flow from western armour styles....In the future, I think I will stick with what I am better at. :twisted:

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:38 pm

While the individual pieces bake, I wanted to share the progress on the shaping of this project. Once they are done baking they will be lacqured to a high gloss and then assembled.

Here are all of the individual pieces:

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/masuneate14.jpg">

Front and side view of the lower portion. When they are finished, these can be laced on seperately, independent of the knee portion.

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/masuneate7.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/masuneate8.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/masuneate9.jpg">

This next set is of the entire piece. I have match shaped the knee dish as well as the flare on the upper and lower piece so that they entire piece flows more comfortably on the leg. Once it is hardened and laced to gether it should flow a little smother, but holding it together without lacing, you can get the idea.

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/masuneate11.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/masuneate12.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/masuneate13.jpg">

greeneel22 · Post by **greeneel22** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:23 pm

wow, i think that looks great!

Ray Cornwell 2 · Post by **Ray Cornwell 2** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:31 pm

Really great, I can see it well, should look awesome when all laced up!

Kristoffer · Post by **Kristoffer** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:49 pm

The knees are huge.. is that an adaptation for SCA combat?

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:43 pm

Xtracted wrote:The knees are huge.. is that an adaptation for SCA combat?

No, that is an adaptation to match the picture I am using as a model for making them.
<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/suneateset6S.jpg">
I agree that they do look large, but they are poportionate to the image I am using.

Kristoffer · Post by **Kristoffer** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:27 am

No, that is an adaptation to match the picture I am using as a model for making them.

Doesnt look like that on the pictures? On Effs picture, the suneate is about two and a half tateage in height.. It looks like yours are about one and a half.. But the pictures might fool me...

The edge between the knees and the leg protection on the suneate on Effs picture is just under the cord that is highest on the picture, about right under the knot. I also think the picture is taken at a slight angle wich makes the knees look slightly bigger then they are supposed to and when they lie on the ground, they get a slight inwards angle (hard to explain this because of my limited english)..

Kenwrec Wulfe · Post by **Kenwrec Wulfe** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:30 pm

My friend - you said you could not find the pattern on Eff's site?

I found it here.

http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/gra ... .PDF?47,10

It was the next button down on the same page as the other pattern - titled "Tsubo Suneate Tateage"

Hope this is off assistance.

DELETEMYACCOUNT · Post by **DELETEMYACCOUNT** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:38 pm

Dan, I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are ONE HAIRY BEAST!!!

Great looking armor though!

Mykaru · Post by **Mykaru** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:49 pm

The problem is simple. The ratio is the same as for the picture. Unfortunately, that ratio is appropriate for someone 4'11.

Run a search for suneate and look at the ones I did for Guillaume. Same style but for a modern person.

DELETEMYACCOUNT · Post by **DELETEMYACCOUNT** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:06 pm

"Several SCAisms". Ok, there's gotta be a compromise because of the nature of the marshalls and such. But DAMN those are some sweet greaves. Nothing NOTHING jars the eye. They look like damn fine Japanese armor.
Sweet. Seriously.

William Frisbee · Post by **William Frisbee** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:27 pm

Mykaru hit the nail right on the head.

Armour for the average japanese man was small.

Even I'm not 4'11".

House did an EXCELLENT job, in fact they look rather similar to the ones Mykaru did for me with the exception of them being leather.

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:24 pm

Here they are finished! Wow!! Once I got to assembling them, they were fairly simple. I think the simplicity is what threw me off. The shaping on the other hand created all of it own difficulties, like getting all of the plates to line up so that lacing them together makes them flow, with simple, elegant lines.

The first set of pics shows just the suneate laced, so the lines can be seen better.

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/gallery/masuneate1.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/gallery/masuneate2.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/gallery/masuneate3.jpg">

This second set is with the ties on:

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/gallery/masuneate4.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/gallery/masuneate5.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/gallery/masuneate6.jpg">

A fun diversion from my normal armour line. I will model them on as soon as my lady gets home this evening. They are approximately 2" too long for me, but they are made to fit the client who is 17" from point of ankle to point of knee.

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:30 pm

Looks sweet.

One thing that I thought I'd pointed out, though, was that the center knee panel is actually symmetrical. It's not comma-shaped -- the bulge is on BOTH sides. Look closer at the original model. Both the left and right sides of the center panel bow OUTward.

One other thing: the bottom is one unit, the knee-guards are one unit. They're separate, and each is completed and they are then put together. You've attached the central knee panel directly to the central shin panel, and then put the sides on and attached the top plates.

Effingham

Vebrand · Post by **Vebrand** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:32 pm

Good Lord man get some sun on those legs

Vebrand the pale :wink:

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:34 pm

Effingham wrote:Looks sweet.

One thing that I thought I'd pointed out, though, was that the center knee panel is actually symmetrical. It's not comma-shaped -- the bulge is on BOTH sides. Look closer at the original model. Both the left and right sides of the center panel bow OUTward.

Effingham

You had pointed that out, and I have modified the pattern for the next pair I do....(If I ever do another pair! LOL)

Unfortunately all of the plates were cut out and that kind of modification on the center knee panel wasn't possible without completely re-cutting it. Instead, I attempted to correct with shaping. (Low on materials, time and funds, the story of every armourer's life)

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:35 pm

Low on materials, time and funds, the story of every armourer's life)

Not familiar with the problem.

Dang, I can't even type that with a straight face.

Effingham

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:39 pm

Effingham wrote:One other thing: the bottom is one unit, the knee-guards are one unit. They're separate, and each is completed and they are then put together. You've attached the central knee panel directly to the central shin panel, and then put the sides on and attached the top plates.

I thought was the case, but how do you get them to stay together while worn. This is an SCA safety issue, and I couldn't find a method on how to attach them on your web site, or in the books I have.

Are they assembled seperately, and then cross laced so that they become a solid piece?

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:37 pm

Are they assembled seperately, and then cross laced so that they become a solid piece?

Bingo. They're quite solid.

Effingham

Brother Logan · Post by **Brother Logan** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:37 pm

I know the young man who is going to be on the reciving end of this wonderful work, he will be very pleased! I can't wait to beat the crap out of him. LOL
Cheers,
Leo

Dalewyn · Post by **Dalewyn** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:53 pm

Brother Logan wrote:I know the youg man who is going to be on the reciving end of this wonderful work he, will be very pleased! I can't wait to beat the crap out of him. LOL
Cheers,
Leo

...Hopefully, you won't be hitting him in the knees and shins too much (if you're SCA)...

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:06 pm

I reassembeled the suneate as Effingham suggested. Here they are modeled by me. They are 2" too long for me, as I stated earlier, but they still cover fairly well...

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/gallery/masuneate7.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/gallery/masuneate8.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/gallery/masuneate9.jpg">

LordWulf · Post by **LordWulf** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:23 pm

Uilleag, I just want to say NICE LEGS MAN !!!!!!!!

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:54 am

Wow! I'd have to say that you outdid yourself on those, Uilleag! They look splendid! Now, are you planning on making most of the rest (if not all of) the harnass to go with this fine pair?

It'd be very neat to see, in my opinion!

-Gregory-

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:44 am

Gregory J. Liebau wrote:Wow! I'd have to say that you outdid yourself on those, Uilleag! They look splendid! Now, are you planning on making most of the rest (if not all of) the harnass to go with this fine pair?

It'd be very neat to see, in my opinion!

-Gregory-

As a matter of fact, yes, I have been commissioned to make the entire harness, minus the helm. I have to say it is a very challenging project, but very fun, (mostly!

)

Chris G. · Post by **Chris G.** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:48 am

How good is the coverage on the top of the knee when it is bent? It looks like you have a piece that stays in contact, but I can't see it too well because of the other parts of the armour.

A very fine job by the way.

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:01 am

This next picture is of the individual knee pieces. The triangle shaped piece on the bottom there is my standard "floating" knee cop from my shovel greave pattern. I will attach very similar to my shovel greave pattern so that when the knee is bent the top of the knee will still be covered, as per SCA standards

IdÃƒÂ«val

Ceramite · Post by **Ceramite** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:17 am

Thanks for putting on some clothes

Fantastic craftsmanship!! I like the design and it looks comfortable!

Chris G. · Post by **Chris G.** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:20 pm

I saw that part, but I would still like to know how well that floating cop covers top of the knee.

Dan can you post of picture of the top of knee when it is bent?

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:32 pm

Chris G. wrote:I saw that part, but I would still like to know how well that floating cop covers top of the knee.

Dan can you post of picture of the top of knee when it is bent?

It completely encompasses the knee when the knee is bent. I'm a little too busy for pics today, but I will try and post one or two more later today or tomorrow.

DAVID01 · Post by **DAVID01** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:56 pm

Is what this statue at all like what you just made here?

[img]http://www.photodump.com/direct/MeadDrinker/samurai4.jpg[/img]

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:19 pm

MeadDrinker wrote:Is what this statue at all like what you just made here?

No, that is a different time period / style of suneate.

I don't have any pics that I can post of the full harness of the time period the suneate I crafted came from.

Leather Tsubo Suneate (Finished Pics!!)

Leather Tsubo Suneate (Finished Pics!!)

Knee