Bronze Mail armour with iron rivets ?

Villerica · Post by **Villerica** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:12 am

Does anybody know if there is evidence of mail armour having existed in Europe made of BRONZE RINGS with IRON rivets ? If so what period would this be ?

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:28 am

(practicality check)

Why would people put dissimilar metals in mail, and why would they use the (generally) less malleable material for the rivet?

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:25 am

Jeff J wrote:(practicality check)

Why would people put dissimilar metals in mail, and why would they use the (generally) less malleable material for the rivet?

For that nifty tingling sensation when their sweat turned the mail into a battery :lol:

But that doesn't explain why the iron for the rivet....

Gavin

J. Morgan Kuberry · Post by **J. Morgan Kuberry** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:52 am

It would not suprie me to find out that somewhere, a bronze ring with an iron rivet exists. Wierdo stuff turns up sometimes. However, if you've got the option to make stuff out of iron, I think you'd make the rings out of it. Other than for decorative purposes, I'm not aware of bronze rings being used as armour, I'm pretty sure Roman maille and forward should be some type of iron. Now there might be a maille find somewhere that includes non-ferrous rings (around the edges, for example) but is mainly composed of ferrous rings, and that the maille maker just kept using iron rivets out of the same big bag o'rivets he already had. Unlikely, but possible. I'd reccomend you do not make such a thing, and that you defiently do not make a whole coat of maille out of bronze rings. But thats just my opinion.

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:33 am

Most latten borders have rings closed with iron rivets. Latten is pretty non-descript, but is probably better termed brass than bronze. There is some Roman bronze mail used as a scale backing, but I don't recall reading the material used for rivets. Copper alloy rings with iron rivets would be in common use for decorative borders from the 13th through 16th centuries.

Mike F · Post by **Mike F** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:38 am

The Moro had copper maille, but it was massive, butted, and certainly not what you were looking for. Just adding to Kuberry's list of latten maille.

Villerica · Post by **Villerica** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:31 am

I ask the question as a friend of mine acquired some excavated mail from the western coast of France and it was untypically made this way. I had wondered if it was a decorative border of a shirt or coif. I will ask him to supply a photo.

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:46 am

Actually, I get Ernst's point. Ironiiclly, the brass rings that Steve Forth sells are closed with the same steel rivets he uses for steel rings. It just seems odd that THEY would do it.

Jason Grimes · Post by **Jason Grimes** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:34 pm

Jeff J wrote:Actually, I get Ernst's point. Ironiiclly, the brass rings that Steve Forth sells are closed with the same steel rivets he uses for steel rings. It just seems odd that THEY would do it.

As Ernst replied above, all of the period latten borders on mail that I have seen were closed with iron rivets. It appears that they didn't care if the metals were different, or maybe a latten rivet is just not strong enough to force it's way into the rivet slot of the link. I closed mine with iron rivets.

http://www.grimmarmoury.com/gallery2/ma ... ewsIndex=1

The iron rivet heads are so small though, you can barely see them.

Erik D. Schmid · Post by **Erik D. Schmid** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:56 pm

Latten links closed with iron rivets are highly common throughout many time periods.

Some Roman links, such as those used in the construction of plumata, used latten links with latten rivets.