Disappointed! :(

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:39 am

So, the helm I've been waiting for for over a month has arrived.
Bellows visored sallet.
At first glance looked good, but visor seemed flat.
Tried it on - visor short - tip of chin protrudes, and visor WAY flatter than pic on the site, so flat it squashes my nose!

.
So essentially it's no good to me. Waiting for the supplier to get back to me - satisfaction guaranteed says the site - so am not going to do a named review as yet. Hoping to return it for a refund.
Also the brow reinforcement/decorative plate that was on the pic on the site wasn't on the helm, changing the look considerably.

Really down about this. If they won't refund (and they'd better!) anyone out there make bar-grills and bellows faced visors. If I can't get a refund I'd like to make it interchangeable

LordWulf · Post by **LordWulf** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:06 am

pics ??

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:20 am

B&W image is original pic from site - for comparison purpose only.
3 colours are my sallet

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:24 am

hmm..third didn't come up!

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:39 am

IMO your right, that visor is WAY to flat

Halv

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:49 am

It sits on my dang nose (and I do not have an large nose) any blow to the visor, in re-enactment or SCA combat would be painful!
Having been looking forward to getting this I'm gutted.
Dropped the guy an e-mail, as he asked, this morning - when I phoned his mobile he was in India!) he said he'd be checking his mail and get back to me in a couple of hours. No reply so far, so will try ringing his landline and speak to his partner.

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:51 am

Note the absence of brow plate, when compared with the original - although I could live with that....

MigueldZ · Post by **MigueldZ** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:53 am

You didn't get the helmet you purchased. Hopefully the armourer works with you to fix the issue.

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:57 am

I hope so - I like these style helms and overall the construction is pretty good, nicely finished and sturdy. Just can't wear it to fight, which kind of defeats the object.

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:05 pm

Update - just had a phone call - the helm will be returned for a refund. Very polite and friendly to deal with. Apologised wholeheartedly.

Ceddie · Post by **Ceddie** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:08 pm

Mike, you are correct, this does not appear to be the item you ordered. But give the guy a chance to make it right. I can't think that this is beyond fixing.
If the dude is in India, chances are you are going to have to wait till he gets home to get it right anyway.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:20 pm

Mike I would take the return and wash your hands of this guy.

I have been looking at the photos and to me it looks like someone posted pictures of an existing helmet and then is selling cheap knockoffs that really don't match up to an original. kind of like if I was selling kit cars of say a shelby cobra. My site is full of photos of a shelby cobra. When you get my kit car it kind of looks like a shelby cobra not really.

Kings Lance sells a pretty decent bellows visor sallet from what photos I hve seen. (unless it was Kings Lance you went to.)

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:27 pm

Looking at the Kings lance bellows sallet - nice. Interesting that he says quite specifically NOT for SCA combat, when it's 16 guage, which I though was allowable. Incidentally, the sallet I recieved is 2mm steel, so about 14guage I think.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:42 pm

Mike Garrett (Orc) wrote:Looking at the Kings lance bellows sallet - nice. Interesting that he says quite specifically NOT for SCA combat, when it's 16 guage, which I though was allowable. Incidentally, the sallet I recieved is 2mm steel, so about 14guage I think.

One thing that some people don't realize when trying to SCA fighters is the 16ga rule. The helmet must be 16ga AFTER working the metal. So, if you start out with 16ga steel you will end up closer to 17-18ga steel after it stretches out.

Most more reputable armourers for SCA combat start out with 1 or 2 gauges below what they want their finished product to be.

So, if that helm started out as a piece of 16ga steel it would not be SCA legal after shaping.

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:45 pm

So - I'm looking for a mid to late 15th century helm, SCA legal. Who, what where, when and how much?

Like sallets and barbutes, could live with an armet or closed helm.
Recommendations?

AB Hammer · Post by **AB Hammer** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:52 pm

Flat face, I don't know to many people that have that flat of a face.

Here a photo you can send him and say use this variation for your pattern and give me nose room, even though its a dress helm you still need nose room

This is just a step pattern for the visor I do in stainless, still alot of hammering

<IMG SRC="http://www.creationtime.com/bellowsvisor.GIF">

And here is a string that shows the helm along with some other armour I have made.

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=47316

I hope you can use it.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:59 pm

Mike Garrett (Orc) wrote:So - I'm looking for a mid to late 15th century helm, SCA legal. Who, what where, when and how much?
Like sallets and barbutes, could live with an armet or closed helm.
Recommendations?

Talk to Beathan at www.armourandcastings.com

http://armourandcastings.com/catalog/pr ... 72632c21f9

He has got an armet on his site that would work. If not talk with him, He already makes Sallets, ask him and see if he could make a Bellows Visored Sallet.

Aonghus · Post by **Aonghus** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:53 pm

I've got an SCA-legal barbute I'll sell you if you're interested. It's well made, 14 guage stainless, with a barred front. $250 + S/H. It's my primary helm right now, but I'm looking at going backwards in time a bit and buying a different helm. If you're interested PM me with your e-mail and I'll send you some pics.

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:07 pm

AB Hammer - beautiful work - love that helm and the pauldrons!
Aonghus - sending pm
InsaneIrish - I'm thinking about A&C

LordWulf · Post by **LordWulf** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:34 pm

The reason the kings lance helmet isn't SCA legal is for a couple of reasons.....

1. The visor is in two pieces that articulate seperately, these would need to be welded together to create a 1" opening across the plane of the visor

2. The steel has been known to have weak spots in it that are not 16g. As anyone who dishes knows it is possible to move too much metal away from an area.......

And how do I know all this about this particular helm ????

[img]http://www.by-battell.com/images/oldrig1.jpg[/img]

I've just painted it black, it's been a very nice helm after I made the modifications to make it legal, here in Meridies is has stood up to a couple of Super Dukes and wannabe Super Dukes....... I would usggest you open the airholes in the visor up more like I have on mine.

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:41 pm

Hmm.... so what mods were made exactly? How did you overcome the thin metal problem?

LordWulf · Post by **LordWulf** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:47 pm

The mods I made to this were pretty simple to do...

1. Welded the two visor plates together with a 1" opening at the middle of the visor and welded in a support bar.

2. Rounded all the sharp ass corners inside the helmet that might even remotely come into contact with my neck or melon. Most of these were along the bottom of the helm

3. Added a strap off each side of the visor that buckles in the back to keep it closed...

Now mine is actually 15g-16g throughout, but on another we got it had spots that went 16-17 tested with UTT, with the weakest point being right on the sides where it's dished deep.

The visor is damn near indestructible aside from denting on the top brow plate. As I said though, this has held up really well for me and I have loaned it to newbies over the past two years and just got it back. I'll post a couple of pics when I get a chance of what it looks like before I go fighting with it this weekend.

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:54 pm

UTT?

Patton Lives · Post by **Patton Lives** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:34 pm

might try this, although I'm not sure if a close helm is too far ahead of what the rest of your kit will be

http://www.forth-armoury.com/Product_Ca ... ellows.htm

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:39 pm

Nice, possibly a bit late, as you say. Biggest problem - 1.3mm steel. Too thin for SCA :sad:

Nice price though!

LordWulf · Post by **LordWulf** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:35 pm

Mike Garrett (Orc) wrote:UTT?

Ultrasonic Thickness Testing....

Used to work for a company here in town that would do that on the hulls of ships and tanks at the papermill. nice accurate and easy.

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:38 pm

should have been able to figure that out myself! :oops:

DAVID01 · Post by **DAVID01** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:28 pm

Mike what did you pay for the helm your returning? If yo dont mind me asking.