14th century legs question with pic's

Kit Houston · Post by **Kit Houston** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:36 pm

Morning all, I'm after images of the inside view of the top lame less 14th century leg harness that's in the churburg book.

Like the ones from rob
http://www.varmouries.com/vpics/tran_01d.jpg

I'm having a hard time getting the knee cop to sit back far enough on the thigh(cquse?)plate to make the leg straight.
I added a lame in the bottom of the thigh pattern. cut and shaped then dished/raised the lame part of the thigh.
Can any one tell me how high the lame bit of the plate should be ? its about 3cm high at the moment.

I dont know if this makes sense !

Jameson · Post by **Jameson** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:32 pm

Did you add two lames? It looks like there are two in the pic, I don't make plate armor so I can't really give much advise.

cornelius · Post by **cornelius** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:49 pm

Err Im not totaly sure about what you are asking...
If you are having an issue with getting the cop to sit back then it is probably to do with the positioning of the articulation / rivets. One way to position these is to make up the thigh and the knee bits. Place your rivet holes in the cop and then position it as you want it to sit and mark the holes in the thigh. Then you need to check that these points will allow the knee to move the way you need it to.

Next time you are in Canberra you could drop by the shopÃ¢â‚¬Â¦
C.

Kit Houston · Post by **Kit Houston** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:31 am

ill try and take some shots tonight to show what im trying to do

Russ Thomas · Post by **Russ Thomas** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:25 am

Hello Kit,

PM sent

Regards as ever,

Russ

mortisfan · Post by **mortisfan** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:54 am

Kit,

My armor has the same legs your looking for. Below is a link to a pic, but I don't have any close up pics of the knee articulation. If you want some closer shots, let me know.

http://www.hartshorn-hale.org/gallery/a ... emo_2004_3

-Finn

Kit Houston · Post by **Kit Houston** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:37 pm

Had no time last night for pics

Thanks Russ, reply is on it way soon.

Morisfan, Thanks for the link but it doesn't seem to be working for me

Kit

Kit Houston · Post by **Kit Houston** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:30 pm

Go easy on me this is my first set of leg

Things to change ...
The point at the top outside of my leg is to sharp and high. (will cut it down)
The inner leg almost hits me in the balls so i need to lowest that.

Pics of the legs.....

[img]http://www.knighthospitaller.com/members/kitandsusan/legs/DSCF1379.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.knighthospitaller.com/members/kitandsusan/legs/DSCF1381.jpg[/img]

And heres the problem....
The fist two shots show's the leg as flat as i can get it, As you can see the knee is out at the thigh pushing the demi into my shin.
How far out does the bottom of the thigh (the all in one lame) have to dished out to make it work ? what should i do fix it ?.
At this point i have it almost gap free when opened and closed, so before i do that id like to hear what you think.

[img]http://www.knighthospitaller.com/members/kitandsusan/legs/DSCF1383.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.knighthospitaller.com/members/kitandsusan/legs/DSCF1392.jpg[/img]

Gap free looking down the leg
http://www.knighthospitaller.com/member ... CF1384.jpg

And a side shoot of them open.
http://www.knighthospitaller.com/member ... CF1386.jpg

And this is my rolled edge.. I'm kinda happy with it .

http://www.knighthospitaller.com/member ... CF1393.jpg

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:26 pm

IMHO this is how I would procede.

Step 1: You have good shape and reasonable rivet position. You should be able to fix this.

Step 2: Dismantle the legs and get some card-board. Not the coregated stuff but the thickness they make shoe-boxes out of.

Step 3: Cut a roughly lame shaped piece and shove it into the cop where you want the lame to be when fully colapsed. Mark the holes with 1 color.

Step 4: Position the same piece in the cop in the fully extended position and mark the rivet holes with a second color.

Examine the cardboard: If the holes are similar then you can build your articulation with minimal reconstruction effort. Punch the holes closest to each other or average the locations. Check how the cardboard articulates and then transfer the marks to the respective steel piece. Note that if you attempt to re-use your existing steel lames by wrapping the cardboard around the steel then the holes will shift closer together. Old holes can sometimes be closed with weld and ground smooth.

If the holes in the cardboard are NOT similar then you need to relocate the rivet holes in the knees. This is considerably more difficult. Average the marks on the cardboard, punch holes in the cardboard, mark the holes on the inside of the cop in both the extended and colapsed position. average these, adjust if necessary to center the lame and punch new holes in the cop. Check the articulation of the cardboard. If not to your satisfaction cut a new cardboard lame and repeat down from step 1. You may need to punch multiple holes in the knees to get them to function properly. Record this correct location and mark it on your original pattern... and regretably dish a new cop... Practice makes perfect.

As a suggestion, the no lames up one lame down style of articulation is IMHO more difficult than 1 lame or even 2 lames in each direction. Understanding shell articulation is a challenge and you have set yourself a challenging first project. You may want to reconsider and add a few more lames until you are more comfortable with the theory and practice of shell articulation.

Good Luck!
Happy Hammering,
Sean

mortisfan · Post by **mortisfan** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:37 am

"How far out does the bottom of the thigh (the all in one lame) have to dished out to make it work ? what should i do fix it ?. "

I really need to remember to get some good pics and send them to you. My legs have that lower part dished out just like your looking for. I can't say off hand 'how much' they are, but hopefully some pics will give you an idea.

As so Sean's comment about having only one lower, he's right. My orginal legs only had the one lower lame and they did not bend very good at all. Ben (my armorer from Dragon Forge) added a second lame to the bottom and now the legs great.

Feel free to pester me about getting those pics. I dropped you a PM earlier also.

-Finn

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:24 am

Remember: Period knees only have to bend far enough to sit on a horse comfortably. This is no (as far as I know) fighting from the knees in true period combat.

Sean

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:54 pm

Though his problem is less in the bending than in the standing erect, which is when his demigreave bites him and makes him stand like a gorilla. I agree, though, that remaking these into three-piece 14th-c. knees should cure the problem.

Kit Houston · Post by **Kit Houston** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:46 pm

Thanks for your posts so far .
Ill start by removing the thigh and trying to rework that joint.

If that fails ill add a lame and if that fails ill add another

I really want to try and get config working

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:34 am

Sean Powell wrote:Remember: Period knees only have to bend far enough to sit on a horse comfortably. This is no (as far as I know) fighting from the knees in true period combat.

Sean

No worries. I don't think you'll ever see Kit fighting from his knees. He's not in the SCA - he does that other stuff . . .

Kit Houston · Post by **Kit Houston** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:15 pm

Thats right Eggie we do it from the wrist !

14th century legs question with pic's

14th century legs question with pic's

Churburg legs...