Please be kind (pics)

bexter12 · Post by **bexter12** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 8:31 am

Well folks,

I finally have a quick little website up to show some of my work. I have inlcuded pics of the breastplate I am working on. It's my first full piece and I know it needs tons of work, but I would be interested in hearing your critiques.

Keep in mind, it has boobs so I be aware I wasn't going for anything historically accurate. Don't even know if I can salvage this one to keep. I might trash it and start over trying to correct mistakes I've made on this one.

I'd also be interested in hearing comments about what to add to this piece should I decide to wear it to our renfest. I was thinking of spaulders, some maille (somewhere) and maybe some half gauntlets.

http://bexter.adkinssoftware.com

bex

Sasuke · Post by **Sasuke** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 9:08 am

The breastplate looks nice. Looks a bit long though. I really like the flare.
That maille shirt is amazing! I also would think some LARPers would kill to have that leather armor you made.
It is great to finally see some pictures of your work. Can't wait to see more.
Sasuke

P.S. Yes, IMO adding spaulders, maille, and half gauntlets would really round out the look for a renfest.

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www.oaksarmoury.com

Thorfinna · Post by **Thorfinna** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 9:19 am

Hi, Bex!

Yeah, you've been busy! Your breastplate's looking pretty darn good and it IS fun, isn't it?

Don't worry about marking your flare lines - Olaf does it on hot work and I still do it on some of the things I flare. After a while your eye will learn how to hold that line on smaller edges, but on larger pieces, a line keeps you from being deceived by optical illusion.

The more natural breast shape looks good (that's what I'd do). I don't know if you plan to fight in it, so this may be irrelevant, but if you do, you might want to round off the point on the front a wee bit.

I'm looking forward to seeing it all planished and ready to go...I think spaulders would look good, and maybe a maille skirt...

Keep on hammering!

Thorfinna

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Thorfinna im botemedel
Armourworks
(formerly Armory of Westlig Stjerne/Alemain Rivet Munitions Armory)
www.armourworks.com

DanNV · Post by **DanNV** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 10:29 am

I think I'd be concerned about the length of the breastplate. Bending over would be impossible. You might want to shorten it up or make the bottom on multiple pieces.

If you can find the Met book on the NEgroli armor there is a pic of a period breastplate that is anatomicaly correct. Of course, most of us would die for the washboard abs that are hammered into it.

Dan

Prince Of Darkmoor · Post by **Prince Of Darkmoor** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 10:57 am

Good work Becky!

bexter12 · Post by **bexter12** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:58 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by DanNV:
I think I'd be concerned about the length of the breastplate. Bending over would be impossible. You might want to shorten it up or make the bottom on multiple pieces.

Dan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've gotten several comments on the length. I do have a long torso, but it still is a little long for me. I can sit in it easily, but bending or anything like that is out of the question. I was planning on finishing the shaping, then adding the strapping and wearing it a little bit to get a feel for it before modifying it any further.

If I did decide to trim off a couple inches at the bottom, would it ruin the piece?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sasuke:
The breastplate looks nice. Looks a bit long though. I really like the flare.
That maille shirt is amazing! I also would think some LARPers would kill to have that leather armor you made.
It is great to finally see some pictures of your work. Can't wait to see more.
Sasuke

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've actually made 2 suits of leather. The first was belt leather rivetted to garment leather. I'm trying to dig up pics of it to post, too. I sold the first one the first time I wore it and have had several offers on the second, just haven't been able to part with it yet.

I love doing maille. When I get pregnant again, that will be the only armouring I'll do for a while.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Thorfinna:
Hi, Bex!

The more natural breast shape looks good (that's what I'd do). I don't know if you plan to fight in it, so this may be irrelevant, but if you do, you might want to round off the point on the front a wee bit.
Thorfinna

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As you can see I'm trying to taper the breasts down a little. After looking at several pics, I realized I didn't want them looking like watermelons.

Of course, I don't plan to ever fight (in it or anything else

). It was made out of 18ga mild steel.

Thanks for your comments and encouragements. I shudder when I look closely at the hammer courses, but know that I'll get better as I go.

bex

Sasuke · Post by **Sasuke** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:25 pm

If you find the breastplate is too long you should be able to cut off the extra without messing anything up too badly.
As DanNV mentioned, you should check out Negroli. There is some real eye candy for you.
Sasuke

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www.oaksarmoury.com

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:31 pm

Jolly well done #12 Thanks for the *pics*
Hal.

Drake Orion · Post by **Drake Orion** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 12:36 am

I like the lines, but you should really go by the belly button rule. Which is the bottom of the breast plate should end at the belly button.

K Wiegers · Post by **K Wiegers** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 10:33 am

What Drake Orion said.

If I did decide to trim off a couple inches at the bottom, would it ruin the piece?

If it were me? I'd not cut it off at the bottom, but rather make a cut at the "rib-line" with a /\ shape cut(better use a picture to reference where to cut though). Which gets you a Breast plate and a placart.

[img]http://www.armourworks.com/images/Breastplates/gothic_fluted_plackart.jpg[/img]

Overlap the resulting two pieces to fit high enough to stick a finger in your belly button and rivit them together. That way you dont have to reflare the bottom, and the necissary overlap would eat up the extra length. If the two pieces dont fit very nicely together, set them in place with screws and try to shape them both together on the anvil at the same time.

Kurt Wiegers

[This message has been edited by K Wiegers (edited 04-27-2002).]

AB Hammer · Post by **AB Hammer** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 11:44 am

If you can make it come to the Spring Armour-In in West Virginia

http://www.armourarchive.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/006223.html

There will be alot of help there.

AB Hammer

bexter12 · Post by **bexter12** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 11:44 am

Kurt,

I wish I had seen your post before this morning! I went ahead and trimmed the bottom and reworked the flare. However, it still might need some more trimmed from it and if it does, I think I'll try it that way.

bex

bexter12 · Post by **bexter12** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 11:51 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ABHAMMER:
 If you can make it come to the Spring Armour-In in West Virginia
There will be alot of help there.

AB Hammer<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would miss it for the world! I've had that page bookmarked since it went up. I plan to have this piece in decent shape for my skills and then maybe reproduce it while I'm there. I'll be there both Saturday and Sunday.

bex

David Hagler · Post by **David Hagler** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 11:53 am

It seems you might be "overworking" it.
It should really not be that much work.
The breasts can be domed from the inside instead of raising, defining the ridges, flaring the bottom,
slightly dishing the whole with a soft face hammer. Make sure all creases are defined well and that's it.
But it's WAY too long. You can simply lop that off a little with shears and redo the bottom.
The process of overworking it has presented the problem of having to do some MAJOR planishing here.
But, just my opinion. But your doing great and have probably learned a great deal already. Keep it up. D

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FIRESIDE ARMOURY
www.firesidearmoury.com

bexter12 · Post by **bexter12** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 1:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by David Hagler:
It seems you might be "overworking" it.
It should really not be that much work.
The breasts can be domed from the inside instead of raising, defining the ridges, flaring the bottom,
slightly dishing the whole with a soft face hammer. Make sure all creases are defined well and that's it.
But it's WAY too long. You can simply lop that off a little with shears and redo the bottom.
The process of overworking it has presented the problem of having to do some MAJOR planishing here.
But, just my opinion. But your doing great and have probably learned a great deal already. Keep it up. D

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know for a fact that I'm overworking it.

I started off doing the steps you outlined but wasn't pleased with the shape of the waist, hence came the raising passes. The breasts have been dished from the inside but I didn't realize until after they were dished, that I didn't like the shape. Now I've decided to rework them for the outside and bring them in a bit.

I fully expect to get the overall shape and lines that I want and then be unable to clean it up with simple planishing. At that point, I'll start over, modifying the plan from what I've learned and hope the next one turns out better.

I'm going to work on the waistline more before I do anymore trimming. I realize that it's still too long my most breastplate standards, but I don't want to cut too much at once and then regret it.

Thanks for the comments and critiques. Posting my pics here wasn't nearly as scary as I thought it would be.

bex

toweyb · Post by **toweyb** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 6:44 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by bexter12:
[BPosting my pics here wasn't nearly as scary as I thought it would be.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We just love armor and are always happy to see somebody give it a whack, so to speak. Thanks for sharing your pictures.

The minute you start forming steel at all, you catapult into the top few percent of all LARP/SCA armor. Getting into the top .01% takes a lot more work, but for now take a well deserved bow.

By the way, I would never have thought of taking a too-long breastplate and using the extra length to articulate a plackart. That's what I love about this forum!

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Miror Otium Negotium Multum Requirare

bexter12 · Post by **bexter12** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 8:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by David Hagler:
It seems you might be "overworking" it.
It should really not be that much work.
The breasts can be domed from the inside instead of raising, defining the ridges, flaring the bottom,
slightly dishing the whole with a soft face hammer. Make sure all creases are defined well and that's it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

David, I do have a question for you now that I've read over this again. I did the steps you outlined (not in that order) but when I got past the basic forming, I realized I wanted the waist to taper inward instead of outward as is common on most breastplates.

Without any physical person here to learn from, I went back to Brian Price's book and started looking for some process that could reproduce that shape. What I found was pictures of forming a vambrance which caused the area by the wrist to be smaller than the area by the forearm.'

That was the process I decided to adopt for the waist.

My question is, is there a better way to make that kind of shape than working it from the outside?

bex

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 9:43 am

I haven't done a lot of metal work so far, but I have had some great success in fluting. Here's what I picked up.

If you're trying to make an actual flute, you can do it with just a rounded off brick chisel, or something similar. I've had a great deal of luck with smaller items, like besagews. I imagine a breastplate would be a little more unwieldy, though.

I just punched a depression in the steel with the brick chisel, and then put the chisel in my vise and put the work on top of it. I've heard it suggested that you should use a smaller hammer, like a tack hammer, but I have a favorite: it's a small cross pien hammer which seems to have either lost its hardness or was crap steel to begin with. In any case, it's not full hard, and I like having a relatively soft faced hammer to do this. It's also bigger than a tack hammer, and it's mushroomed over, so there's less of a chance of denting the work with the corners of the hammer face.

I just set the work on top of the chisel, and go really easy on it. I picked up the technique from a jeweler friend of mine. The idea is to use really light taps of the hammer, and work the metal into a sharp crest. It's pretty much all eyeball work, but in that respect I can see that you're not lacking in talent.

The only problem is that you're prone to making a little valley on each side of the crest. It's only a problem if you think it's a problem.... but if you're going more for an actual crest, and not a flute, then I'd think you'd need something like a creasing stake.

In any case, there's plenty that you could teach me... I just offered the above because it worked really well. I'll have to finish my wild goose chase for oxy tank bottoms before I can pipe up about anything else...

HELMUT

mrks · Post by **mrks** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 12:24 pm

bex

at some point you might want to consider starting a new piece using the new techniques you have learned and bring that piece to the armour workshop. wish I could be there sounds fun.

I say this beacause it can sometimes be easier and much faster to make a new piece than to rework one with problems.

I know you have spent a ton ot time and effort but dont be afraid to put that down for a bit and start anew. if you have the material on hand or can get new metal easily just begin a proto-tpye 2 breastplate and try to sink(apply new techniques whatever you learned from the first project) most of it. you might be surprised how much faster and might like the rough new one more than the old one.

I would keep your first project and hang it on the wall of your shop to be able to say years later " and this is my first piece"
here is a picture of my "first work":
http://tiarmour.com/first%20work.htm

here is some of my latest production stuff:
http://tiarmour.com/instock%20data1.htm

great work. its wonderful to see someone who loves the art.

hope you wear ear protection with all the hammering you have done lately.

mrks

[This message has been edited by mrks (edited 04-29-2002).]

bexter12 · Post by **bexter12** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 3:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by schreiber:


If you're trying to make an actual flute, you can do it with just a rounded off brick chisel, or something similar. I've had a great deal of luck with smaller items, like besagews. I imagine a breastplate would be a little more unwieldy, though.

The only problem is that you're prone to making a little valley on each side of the crest. It's only a problem if you think it's a problem.... but if you're going more for an actual crest, and not a flute, then I'd think you'd need something like a creasing stake.

HELMUT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had read about the creasing method you described and the unweildy-ness of the breastplate has been my big issue. It's hard for me to figure out how to hold it steady over a tiny chisel. I'm sure it's a matter of practice.

I kind of find myself liking the little valley on either side. I think for a couple of reasons, 1) it's relatively even all the way down (an accomplishment for me that it's symmetrical

2) the depression makes the front of the plate mold better to my torso. I think a more flattering look.

Thanks for the techinque tip. I'm going to have to work on it.

bex

bexter12 · Post by **bexter12** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 3:37 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by mrks:
bex

I know you have spent a ton ot time and effort but dont be afraid to put that down for a bit and start anew. if you have the material on hand or can get new metal easily just begin a proto-tpye 2 breastplate and try to sink(apply new techniques whatever you learned from the first project) most of it. you might be surprised how much faster and might like the rough new one more than the old one.

I would keep your first project and hang it on the wall of your shop to be able to say years later " and this is my first piece"

great work. its wonderful to see someone who loves the art.

hope you wear ear protection with all the hammering you have done lately.

mrks

[This message has been edited by mrks (edited 04-29-2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Start a new piece? NOOOOOOO

Actually, time isn't a factor with my work. I do it mostly to please myself and rarely sell anything. So, taking another month on this piece and then starting over again doesn't bother me in the least. I hoping against hope that the next one is easier for me. I mean that I can apply what I've learned from this piece.

Ear protection? I am the biggest wimp. I wear a welding glove on my left hand (on both hands when I'm doing anything but hammering, safety goggles (even when i'm only hammering), ear plugs *and* I take off all my jewelry, wear long snug sleeves.....I'm a basket case about having an accident. The ear plugs were actually the first thing I bought along with the goggles.

I'm quite the looker while I'm working.

bex

Hun · Post by **Hun** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 4:08 pm

Are you from the Paducah, Ohio area?
Has that Maille ever been in a museum?
I swear I gawked at that piece in a small art museum in Paducah a few summers ago. I was there painting the floodwall murels. One day we took a break and went to the museum. I saw that piece and was riveted (pardon the pun, butted didn't sound right). It was actually on of the influences that got me interested in armory.
Hun

bexter12 · Post by **bexter12** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 8:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hun:
Are you from the Paducah, Ohio area?
Has that Maille ever been in a museum?
I swear I gawked at that piece in a small art museum in Paducah a few summers ago. I was there painting the floodwall murels. One day we took a break and went to the museum. I saw that piece and was riveted (pardon the pun, butted didn't sound right). It was actually on of the influences that got me interested in armory.
Hun<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you maybe thinking of Portsmouth? We have floodwall murals here. If so, then yeah! That was mine! Every two years they have a local artist exhibit. The get a couple hundred entries and choose a couple dozen for the exhibit. I was actually on bedrest while pregnant with my son during the entire exhibit and didn't even get to see it myself. A friend did take a picture and framed the award it won.

That is about the coolest thing I've ever heard

and one of the best compliments I could receive....

bex