Open face barbute

sedric · Post by **sedric** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 6:35 pm

I've heard open face barbute's were called sestas(sp?)and I was wondering if anyone has any good pics of either period or new ones.
I'm nearly finnnished making mine, I just wish I could fight in it without adding the bar grill, I just kinda like my face in one peice.

May be I should make the bar grill in the shape of a 'Y' face...hmmm...

Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 7:38 pm

i believe you are thinking of "celata"

But there were open faced 15th century helmets, alternatelyt called barbutes, barbuta, sallets, salades, celata, etc.

We tend to group those with a sweeping tail as sallets, and those with more close tails as barbutes, but i'm not sure if that was a period practice.

-+G

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 9:56 pm

While it's important for that headpiece to have that neo-Corinthian helmet outline (and were there any barbutes that didn't have the medial ridge?), I always figured the definitive feature of the barbute was the shape of the face opening -- you open it up far enough and you've got a celata, whether or not you put a large flare to the rear brim.

You can design a really confusing helmet that smoothly combines the lineaments of both. Was such done in period? Such a hybrid looks like a practical helmet -- but is it? All I can guess is its all-up weight might be somewhere between the two types, which would not necessarily be a good thing if you needed a bar visor over it.

------------------
"The Minstrel Boy to the war is gone..."

[This message has been edited by Konstantin the Red (edited 04-29-2002).]

Will Knight · Post by **Will Knight** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 2:19 pm

I have seen one parade sallet that comes close to being a total hybrid, though the gilt lion on the thing would limit practicality.
-Will

[This message has been edited by Will Knight (edited 04-30-2002).]

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 9:59 pm

Would this qualify?

[img]http://www.cox-internet.com/halberds/visordone2.jpg[/img]

Hal, novice metal pounder? :-)

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 10:55 pm

Well, that's a celata.

Lion du Fay · Post by **Lion du Fay** » Wed May 01, 2002 12:03 am

Barbute
<center>

</center>
The Sallet first appeared in Italy and was called the 'celata'. In England it was known as the 'Salade'. Over the 15th century it evolved into several different styles. The Barbute or Barbut (barbuta[italian]) refers to the open faced, shoulder-length Italian helmet , made in one peice, with a T-shaped face opening.

Pietro da San Tebaldo · Wed May 01, 2002 8:56 am

Lion-

where did you get that photo? That's a beautiful example...

------------------
"Or, a pall inverted surmounted by an orle Azure counterchanged"
mka: Sam Pearce

Patrick Thaden · Post by **Patrick Thaden** » Wed May 01, 2002 11:34 am

Pietro da San Tebaldo,
how bout here
http://www.medievalrepro.co

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Wed May 01, 2002 1:53 pm

The one defining characteristic that I use to determine between barbutes and celatas is the cheek pieces.

Looking at the profile of the helm, I always envision a barbute as having either a vertical cheek plate, or curving slightly or severely in toward the mouth. Celatas have more of a backward sweeping cheek plate.

I'd call Halberds' pic a barbute. But that's just me.

HELMUT

sedric · Post by **sedric** » Wed May 01, 2002 6:12 pm

Hey, Halberds when did you take that picture of my Helm?

Except for the brass work and the tail being slightly different, that looks just like the one I just finnished.
I added the bar grill to make it SCA legal for an event this weekend, Just need to clean up the welds a little and rivet the grill on.
Hopfully I'll get some pics before everyone hits it.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Thu May 02, 2002 9:32 pm

You must guard your thoughts. Your Majesty.

**bows in respect**

This is not one of your patterns, but the pics of your work have influenced me so.

Bar grills, I know not, but the price of 20 ft. of 1/4" cold rolled steel is $1.00 in my area.

Hell, at that price, anyone could try it, no?

*salute* In your service. Hal.

sedric · Post by **sedric** » Sun May 05, 2002 2:51 pm

Well I just got back from May fair, I got quiet a few comments on my new helm (didn't keep any of 'em from hitting it though) My Lady took a few pics and we'll just have to see about posting them if they come out well.