SCA: Marshals Clarification Regarding Helm Construction

[Sigeric]

Greetings All,

I have a quick question for you SCA marshals out their. I know the spacing rules for bargrill/eye slot construction, but what about spacing in other portions of the helm.

A Shire member has a helm that is loosly based off of a greathelm. He wanted extra air flow, so instead of overlapping the bottom back and front parts, he left a gap (between 1"-1 3/4"). This gap is on the sides and is about where the ears are. He placed 3 bars acrossed the gap to make it stable and protect the ears, however the marshals tool easily fits between the bars.

Looking through the SCA Marshals manual I didn't see any requirements regarding spacing other than for the face. So I would like to know (As a Marshal) what's your take is for spacing requirments.

Sigeric

[white mountain armoury]

I believe it would fail, i have no gaps greater than 7/8th on anything i build.
With slots that wide a ca blunt could enter the helmet or something similar.
We i to inspect it i would fail it if it had any gaps one inch or wider.
I would also question the strength of the helm based on your description.

[InsaneIrish]

Fail flat out.

While not technically in the marshal's handbook it still is not a good idea. I mean what good is a helmet if the weapon can pass through it and strike your head???

Ask your friend if he cleans his ears with 1 1/4" rattan and a low profile thrusting tip?

Just because thrusts to the head are illegal in some kingdoms doesn't mean he won't get hit there.

Tell him to weld some more bars across there until a marshal's gauge does not pass through and he should be fine.

[Jorgen]

Aye, what he said above, can't have a gap bigger than 1 and 1/4" They don't want anything going into the helm.

[Kilkenny]

Greetings All,

I have a quick question for you SCA marshals out their. I know the spacing rules for bargrill/eye slot construction, but what about spacing in other portions of the helm.

A Shire member has a helm that is loosly based off of a greathelm. He wanted extra air flow, so instead of overlapping the bottom back and front parts, he left a gap (between 1"-1 3/4"). This gap is on the sides and is about where the ears are. He placed 3 bars acrossed the gap to make it stable and protect the ears, however the marshals tool easily fits between the bars.

Looking through the SCA Marshals manual I didn't see any requirements regarding spacing other than for the face. So I would like to know (As a Marshal) what's your take is for spacing requirments.

Sigeric

mmm. If the manual language only addresses openings on the "face" of the helm, then it's a case of bad re-writing.

Look to the purpose of the rules and it is readily obvious the helm is intended to prevent the fighter's head from being struck by a weapon. Openings *anywhere* on a helmet that are larger than the specified maximum opening are not permitted (yeah yeah yeah - whose head fits through a one inch wide slot ).

I've got no problem with slat back helms, Vendel style helms with an open weave top, etc. - as long as they are structurally sound and none of the openings are large enough to admit any weapon we use in heavy combat.

gavin

[Morgan]

Yup, I'd fail it in a heartbeat. But it can be fixed by welding a bar down the middle of the slot.

[Kenwrec Wulfe]

If I can fit the marshall's tool through any spot on the helm, I will fail it. Whether a shot is legal in the area or not, it is a matter of safety.

[Sigeric]

Thanks for all the advise. I will have him stop over to my shop so we can weld that extra bar like Morgan suggested.

Sigeric

[JT]

If I can fit the marshall's tool through any spot on the helm, I will fail it.

Even through the neck opening?????


(Sorry)

[Jean Richard Malcolmson]

To add to the chorus, I would fail it, also.

Regards,
Rischard
Ansteorra

[Kenwrec Wulfe]

If I can fit the marshall's tool through any spot on the helm, I will fail it.

Even through the neck opening?????


(Sorry)

Nah, That one I would hope that you can fit your head into.... if not.....Get a bigger helm!

[Morgan]

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest he's over-interpreting the rules regarding bar spacing, as they are most common in the face area.

mmm. If the manual language only addresses openings on the "face" of the helm, then it's a case of bad re-writing.

Look to the purpose of the rules and it is readily obvious the helm is intended to prevent the fighter's head from being struck by a weapon. Openings *anywhere* on a helmet that are larger than the specified maximum opening are not permitted (yeah yeah yeah - whose head fits through a one inch wide slot ).

I've got no problem with slat back helms, Vendel style helms with an open weave top, etc. - as long as they are structurally sound and none of the openings are large enough to admit any weapon we use in heavy combat.

gavin

[Sigeric]

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest he's over-interpreting the rules regarding bar spacing

No... he's just not the brightest bulb lol...

Next time I will have to keep a closer eye on his projects...

[Dalewyn]

Actually, he can't have a gap bigger than 1". If a 1" down can fit in and touch your face or head, then it's too big.