cuir bouilli cased greave (day 2)

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:22 pm

Greetings all,

Several years ago I was challenged to make a cased greave from leather and then to cuir bouilli it. At the time the task was very daunting and I passed on it until I better understood both the hardening process for leathers and different shaping techniques.

Recently, I was commissioned to attempt this project and I agreed to accept the challenge. I'm still not certain that I will be successful, but I will be including pictures of today's progress.

Using raising and dishing techniques, I am fairly certain that I have the shape correct for the individual I am crafting these for, because the front half of the greave has a mostly flat edge on both sides, this will be very important for matching up the back half of the greave, which I still need to shape. That will be tomorrow's project......

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave1.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave2.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave3.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave4.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave5.jpg">

The tooling was adapted from the stone relief of a mounted warrior on the tomb of Gurliemo Beradi circa 1289. It was modified to fit the shape of this pattern, so it seems a little squat, compared to the original. I attempted period tooling techniques, but used contemporary dyes for the coloring.

T. Finkas · Post by **T. Finkas** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:38 pm

Looks great so far. I'm looking forward to the next photo installment.

Trevor · Post by **Trevor** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:34 pm

Very nice!

I'll be interested how the edges match up. I have a hard enough time with steel-and it stays where I smack it!

Gonna overlap or butt the two halves?

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:49 pm

Trevor wrote:Very nice!

I'll be interested how the edges match up. I have a hard enough time with steel-and it stays where I smack it!

Gonna overlap or butt the two halves?

Actually, with the casing I use for extensive tooling like this, the leather does not get entirely saturated, so when I shape it, it stays in place fairly well. It is still fairly maliable, but it retains enough stiffness that it doesn't flop all over.

Because of the thickness and bulk of the material I will be butting the two halves. I will be using soft leather hinges and short buckles and straps.

Eamonn MacCampbell · Post by **Eamonn MacCampbell** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:41 am

Dan, Great work as usual, but I guess I needent tell you that...Still drooling over allthe other choice bits you have paraded before us... :lol:

I noticed you mentioned doing it with period tooling techniques...Care to indulge me with how that is done or point me to a site that would explain the difference between period and modern?

As always...Man that is AWESOME!!!

Kel Rekuta · Post by **Kel Rekuta** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:09 am

House of the Wolf wrote:
Trevor wrote:Very nice!

I'll be interested how the edges match up. I have a hard enough time with steel-and it stays where I smack it!

Gonna overlap or butt the two halves?

Actually, with the casing I use for extensive tooling like this, the leather does not get entirely saturated, so when I shape it, it stays in place fairly well. It is still fairly maliable, but it retains enough stiffness that it doesn't flop all over.

Because of the thickness and bulk of the material I will be butting the two halves. I will be using soft leather hinges and short buckles and straps.

Hi Dan,

Love the tooling, you make leather come to life!

I have two comments. I've been looking at a similar project (without the tooling) and a period solution to the hinge is a whipped lace to butt the edges together. I'll try to scan an example later today.

Secondly, this project is a perfect opportunity to "last" form the components. Creating the lasts is a hell of job but they would serve to quickly replicate the job for other customers, leaving you more time to execute decoration.

Just a thought for future consideration.

Cheers!

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:13 am

Hey, Uillieag, you ever thought about teaching at the Univ of Atlantia for this sort of thing?

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:46 am

"I noticed you mentioned doing it with period tooling techniques...Care to indulge me with how that is done or point me to a site that would explain the difference between period and modern? "

Eamonn,

I use just a sharp stylis and then a customized tool for the background shading. The difference between modern and period tooling is that a lot of the tools used in modern embossing either didn't exist, or were craafted specifically for the project. I purchase most of my stamping tools and then modify them for my needs.

"I have two comments. I've been looking at a similar project (without the tooling) and a period solution to the hinge is a whipped lace to butt the edges together. I'll try to scan an example later today.

Secondly, this project is a perfect opportunity to "last" form the components. Creating the lasts is a hell of job but they would serve to quickly replicate the job for other customers, leaving you more time to execute decoration."

Kel,

I don't think that the lacing will give the finished look that the client is asking for. The soft hinges will be mounted on the interior and secured with peened rivets.

As for lasts, I have tried to construct them in the past, and I simply have no talent for it. The front half of this greave was shaped in about 10 minutes, so time isn't really a factor. The dishing and raising techniques used on water cased leather is very similar to moving hot metal, the medium moves very readily and holds its shape well during the shaping process. I agree that lasts will probably be a good way to go and I am exploring haveing some developed for me early next year.

"Hey, Uillieag, you ever thought about teaching at the Univ of Atlantia for this sort of thing?"

Your Excellancy,

Yes, I have considered teaching this stuff before, but I have taken some time off for teaching to concentrate on production. The class prep time is rather extensive and the less resourses available at the class site, the more that has to be prepared for, and the less practical time the students get actually working with the medium. The class has such a broad spectrum of subject matter that selecting what you want to focus on for an hour or two is problematic. Perhaps a day long series going through all of the processes, and then students can pick and choose which aspects they want to attend. This fall's University is too close to properly prepare for, perhaps Spring, or next fall though....

I want to thank everyone for their positive feed back. It is really encouraging to hear the praise and constructive comments everyone posts!

BdeB · Post by **BdeB** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:31 pm

Man, my legs look fat! :shock:

Can't wait to see them...

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:39 pm

BdeB wrote:Man, my legs look fat!

Can't wait to see them...

Remember, they have to fit over your ankle braces and sweat pants.....that increased the size by 1 1/8"....so yeah, they do look big, but we'll see how they fit soon.

I have the back of the first greave shaped and hardened, I will be assembling later this afternoon and posting pics. The shaping of the back would have been much easier on a last, that would have made forming the two pieces to match much easier, but....they came out pretty close using raising methods......

More pics tonight.

BdeB · Post by **BdeB** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:42 pm

These will be too nice for tandy buckles Uilleag, I am willing to order some custom and wait for them...

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:48 pm

No problem. I will hinge them and wait on the buckles. May I suggest Talbot's Fine Accessories? He has some really nice 14c buckles that run about $3.00 each. They are for 1/2" straps and I think that they will work really well for this project.

Of course Raymond's Quiet Press and a bunch of other vendors carry nice stuff too.......just order them and I will attach them for you. You can even have them shipped directly to me, so I can put them on as soon as they come in....

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:46 pm

Here we are at the end of day 2 and the first greave is assembled, (minus buckles) I have started tooling the second greave and will also post a progress pic of that later this evening.

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave6.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave7.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave8.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave9.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave10.jpg">

James H. · Post by **James H.** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:07 pm

WOH

I didn't know you could even raise leather let alone thise*drools. Could you explain how raising leather works? Does it shrink the leather the same way metal shrinks? I'm just humbled at what you do...it looks so cool!

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:09 pm

Raising leather is done with the same principals as raising steel. It doesn't react exactly the same, it doesn't shrink back on itself. What metal is doing during that process, is the metal's molecular structure is actually moving, leather doesn't do that. It is an organic material, heat will make it shrivel in on itself, but not in a controlable fashion.

Raising leather allows the craftsman to give slight saddle shapes, or raised areas along the leather's surface. Care with clean tools and smooth hammer heads will give a better finished surface.

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:55 pm

Here's the picture of the tooled greave before dyeing and shaping....just one more greave to shape and harden and this project will be ready for a final fitting.....

<IMG src="http://www.houseofthewolf.com/progresspics/bdbgreave11.jpg">

Magmaforge · Post by **Magmaforge** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:53 pm

if anyone could do it in leather, its Uilleag. Hats off to you sir.

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:59 am

A shapened stylus? You mean like a modeling spoon with a sort of cutting edge on it? So you're not using a swivel knife and a hammered tool (like a beveler) on this one?

Christopher

I always wanted to see a cased greave in leather

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:48 am

RenJunkie wrote:A shapened stylus? You mean like a modeling spoon with a sort of cutting edge on it? So you're not using a swivel knife and a hammered tool (like a beveler) on this one?

Christopher

I always wanted to see a cased greave in leather

The stylis isn't for cutting so much as for leaving an impression inthe leather, and I am using a hammered tool, it is a modified Tandy tool.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:53 am

Very nice work Uilleag. I'm curious about the choice to set the copper rivets with the burrs on the outside - why did you put them that way ?

Gavin

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:00 am

Personal aesthetics. I prefer that look to the flat bottoms of the copper rivets I use. That and it's easier to peen from the outside than the inside. (If that makes sense)