New to armour, and SCA...

Rainier Carlsen · Post by **Rainier Carlsen** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:11 am

First, I want to start off by saying that these forums have been very informative so far. I have always entertained the idea of both armoursmithing and bladesmithing. I am now finally in a position to start.

My first project I have in mind, I pulled from the armoursmith guid archive, for a pembroke helm. http://www.armourarchive.org/essays/gun ... roke_helm/

I built a mock model out of heavy duty poster board, adjusting the measurements to fit my head properly with padding.

Before I go and cut my sheet of steel is there anything I should be wary of?

I understand that this is a very simplistic helm. But I believe it will serve me well as part of my first set of armor. I really do not care for the helms with the bars covering the entire face. It looks to much like a football helmet, or a hockey GK mask.

Let me know what you guys think. Thanks.

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:40 am

As with anything - measure twice, cut once!

Welcome to the Archive

Henry of Bexley · Post by **Henry of Bexley** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:16 am

I made this helm as one of my first projects. The pattern works decently enough. My only recommendation is make sure you get the eyeslots rih the first time. I made them too big, so I welded a brow reinforce on. It was still too big on one side, so I riveted bars on. And now I call it the Barrel of Fugly.

Rainier Carlsen · Post by **Rainier Carlsen** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:56 am

Thanks for the welcome Mike.

The pattern does look simple enough. I am still contemplating if I want to make the helm or not. I would be required to rivet the top onto it, and that would leave a distinct gear tab top.

Plus I browsed a bit more in the forums, and found this guys armor shop, and I read good things about it, and it has some great prices.

http://www.ironmongerarmory.com/index.php

Plus I actualy like the fact that it is made of a significantly heavier gage of steel (I have a sheet of 16 gage, thinking of using it for something else now). My wife likes that fact as well.

Thanks, and I welcome all advice/criticism.

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:17 am

Hello Rainier,

Welcome to the archive.

Ironmonger is (IMHO) a quality business servicing the SCA community. You will not be disappointed purchasing either armor or tools through him. LH and LARP groups might feel differently.

16Ga is the MINIMUM acceptable for an SCA helmet. I personally never suggest less than 14ga. Learning to shape 16ga is easier and less time consuming so it might be sufficient to get you on the field and authorized but once the big boys step out of training mode and into actual combat mode you will want to replace the helm.

The pattern you referenced is fairly straight forward and easy but could use improvements. I would recomend looking at extant examples (eg the black prince helm) for refinements. My first recomendation would be a nasal tab connecting the face plate to the forehead. Ideally this is integral to the face but can be applied later as a seperate piece. If a seperate piece you will need a MINIMUM of 2 rivets in each end.

If you have the capability to dish there is no need for a folded tab construction. Dish the upper inch if the fore-head and back-of-skull plate and then clean up over a stake to make an interior bend. Dish the top plate until the curvatures match. This will take practice and experimentation unless you have an experienced armorer to work with. But learning is what it is all about.

Do not be affraid to waste cardboard. It is cheeper and easier than steel. Do not be affraid to waste steel. It is you BODY you are protecting. You only get ONE this time around and it caries the mistakes for a LONG time.

A better beginer project (IMHO) especially for 16ga is a pair of spaulders. They teach cutting, fileing, dishing, curving, drilling and riveting. If you want they can also have the lowest edge rolled if you want to practice that.

(IMHO) After spaulders and a gorget you can look into 14ga for a helm or buy a helm and build leg armor and elbows. I would find some 18ga for full arms (except the elbow).

Good luck,
Happy hammering

Rainier Carlsen · Post by **Rainier Carlsen** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:24 am

Thanks Sean.

There is actualy an experienced armorer where I live. Master Geoffrey MacDhomhuill.

I am planning to attend an armor workshop he will be hosting coming up soon.

When I spoke with him he did recommend purchasing a helm, and he starts off teaching the basics with some spaulders/pauldrons, bracers, elbow and knee cops,(right term?) and, if I can convince him, providing he has time, I hope to learn a great deal about dishing and planishing. I do not have any tools to start with, except a jigsaw for cutting. Whis is why the helm pattern I listed initialy interested me.

Thanks for the tips. Maybe in a few months (being highly optimistic) I will have some nice pieces of functional armour to show off.

Britehelm · Post by **Britehelm** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:43 am

Master Geoffrey is a great asset to be close to. His classes are very informative and you will be light years ahead of people that have to learn on the fly. Welcome to the insanity and if you ever make it to Osprey, give me a yell. I have a small shop and will be more than happy to share my meager knowledge.
Lex
Alexander Brighthelmston

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:31 pm

Ranier, definitely get Master Geoffrey to teach you to make the top cap with a solid bent-down flange and not the tab-edge. You've got him as a resource, so use him! The top cap is the trickiest part for a first-timer; you have to coax the riveting flange down just a little at a go-round. And the top cap may actually be easier to fit inside the forehead and occiputal plates than over them. This seems counterintuitive until you remember what threat barrelhelms were built to deal with -- lance blows coming from horizontal or below.

Another thing I would modify from the pattern is I'd just extend the face plate back to meet the nape plate all the way down, so there isn't that split in the lower edge. While that kind of thing is traditional in SCA spangenhats and was present in early Topfhelms, you'll get better strength and protection (meaning longer service life) out of making that part solid all the way down. If it's there to help your hearing (a good idea), replace it with a cross pattern of small drilled holes over each ear, and keep padding off the ear for best hearing.

If you're a glasses wearer, make three times certain your helm is deep enough front to back to give you clearance. In that same vein, probably the best helm padding scheme is attach almost none of your padding to the helm proper, but instead have all the padding in a separate coif, or two coifs -- one overcoif that holds the cloth doughnut on the top of your head (adapts the curve of your skull to the corners of the helm) and a simple arming-coif beneath that as a sweat-soaker-upper. Such coifs also mean the glasses wearer can put the coif on, arrange the glasses well in place, then slide the helm down over the whole works without knocking the specs askew.

These tweaks and the added nasal bar thing aside -- another good idea -- you've got a good pattern to work from.

For your toolbox, I'd suggest getting yourself two or three ball pein hammers next, 8-, 16-, and 32-oz sizes. You can do lots with the heavier of these, and the 8-oz for small stuff and planishing. Pick really hemispherical ball peins, or grind them to shape -- the bullety ball pein is curved a bit tighter than optimal. Next thing after that is a power drill and a box of bits. Get extra 3/16" bits and 7/32" bits -- you'll use lots of these and you'll bust lots of them too.

Rainier Carlsen · Post by **Rainier Carlsen** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:54 pm

Thanks Konstantine.

1)Tools I have: 14.4 V cordless powerdrill, and a corded backup drill.
Jigsaw, (a bit old, but it works well enough for everything I have used it for so far.)
Circular Saw (only have the blade it came with so far, and I can't see much use for this in making armour)
and about half a dozen c-clamps.

2) I am ordering the 12 guage helmet top from http://www.ironmongerarmory.com/index.php and so I am no longer going to craft the pembroke. (maybe as a backup helmet/learning experience later)

I plan to use Master Geoffrey as much as he will allow, without becoming a nuissance.

Again thanks for the pointers, and tips.

freiman the minstrel · Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:23 pm

If those are the only tools you have, you definitely want some sort of hammer.

And a broom. It's really a losing battle, but keeping your work area clean(er) will help tons too.

Lights and books are the next things I added. Then a first aid kit.

f

raito · Post by **raito** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:44 pm

Horradrick wrote:I made this helm as one of my first projects. The pattern works decently enough. My only recommendation is make sure you get the eyeslots rih the first time. I made them too big, so I welded a brow reinforce on. It was still too big on one side, so I riveted bars on. And now I call it the Barrel of Fugly.

Fortunately, it'll never make it onto the lists. Nice paint job, though.

And learn Horradrick's lesson. If you're going to use it in the SCa, read the helmet construction rules first. :twisted:

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:10 am

Trust me, Master Geoffrey will not take any questions as bugging

Since you are down near me, stop by sometime and say hi. You might also want to talk to Sir Savogg (aka. Vogg) or Baron Owen (both from Sol Haven aka. SE Atl.) They both make armour as well and might be able to provide other viewpoints.