In (SCA) melee -- individual or unit?

[Adriano]

Not enough room in the thread title field for:

In (SCA) melee -- as a matter of philosophy, should you do whatever it takes to be an effective unit and help your side win, or should you just have fun?

Case in point: some years back I borrowed a spear at an event and found that I had a knack for it. I made my own rattan spear and later one of fiberglass. At Pennsic and other melee events, I felt that since I didn't use a shield, the way for me to most effectively help out my side would be as a spearman. I got a lot of kills, and like to think I did my part.

Note: the following is not intended in any way to denigrate fighters who use spears; just an expression of my personal experience and preference.

[b]However -- I just wasn't having as much fun. I'm an up-close-and-personal fighter; didn't like gigging guys in a shieldwall who couldn't reach me. After awhile I started ignoring the shieldmen and concentrated on taking out my counterparts -- spearmen in the opposing line. But the fact was, even when I felt I was doing a good job, sticking a guy with a spear just never gave me the kind of visceral thrill that whacking him with a sword, mace or glaive did. So, at Castle Wars last year, I gave my spear away to a gentleman from Atlantia (who returned the favor by sending me some very nice leather). Since then, in a gate battle (like in the Fort at Pennsic) I'm probably useless, but if it's a field battle I try and do some rapid flanking with polearm, greatsword or two-swords; if it's a bridge battle I'm probably on the left edge of the bridge with two swords; and I have a lot of fun.

Maybe in a way I'm letting my side down. In most events it's fairly aribtrary which side of a melee you're on; often the sides are picked by counting off 1 and 2. But at an event where I'm fighting on the side of the Kingdom of Meridies, maybe I should care more about doing whatever I can to help my kingdom to victory than about whether I'm personally having fun. (And fun is relative; as long as I'm out there in armour I'm definitely going to have fun.) So I'm thinking of acquiring a new spear (next year, when I'm back in fighting shape) and using it when I'm fighting for my barony or the Kingdom.

So, I just wanted to hear the thoughts and experiences of other fighters on this subject. I'm sure many of us have had to make this kind of decision.

[Jost von Aichstadt]

In (SCA) melee -- as a matter of philosophy, should you do whatever it takes to be an effective unit and help your side win, or should you just have fun?

For me they don't conflict - I suck, but I'm out there trying, and I'll be better by next year, and the year after that - having a blast all the while.

But as I interpret what you've written, you seem to have had a conflict, and then you resolved it in favor of having fun, but now you're having doubts.

Do you have a liege or someone whose standard you follow into battle? Have they complained? Or are your doubts coming from some other, a battle-brother? If someone with a right to an opinion has commented, you might want to consider it, but if these doubts are coming from within, put them from you. People willing to take shields into melee are rare and precious - at least in the unit with which I've recently been privileged to run. Everybody up here (Northern Army) wants pole weapons or spear, and sure, that's what does the killing, but without the shields, well, you've heard the arguments before.

Have fun, train hard, strike swiftly, follow your unit.

[Blaine de Navarre]

I believe SCA fighting is like sex - if you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong.

Once upon a time, I loved fighting and was getting reasonably good at it. Then I got so concerned with how well I was doing that I stopped having fun. Then I quit. Now I'm old and fat and trying to get back into it, without the body of a 21 year old.

Now, it may or may not be true that you will deliver fewer kills for your side fighting sword-and-shield, but if you end up quitting, then you'll be delivering 0 kills. If I were your commander, I'd rather have you doing what you love.

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

Wait a second...Someone from Meridies wants to be on the shield wall? Gasp!! Can it be so? I am all about having someone else besides the 8 of us from South-Downs (at least I think there are 8 and Aiden doesnt count, poofy girly sleeves and all that) on the wall to protect the 15 spears behind us. No it is not that bad right now but I would love some company. Look me up when you are back in fighting shape, love to meet you. I am the other tall guy from GT (look for someone Misha's height but 75 lbs lighter). Go with what you love, because if you dont have fun, what is it for? Recognition and respect without any love for the game? Go with what you enjoy, but I would say to keep a spear, just in case your mood decides to change and you decide that a spear might be fun because the humidity is 87% and the sun is 8 pts above the zenith (or any other stupid reason if you think you might enjoy it).

[Adriano]

Thanks, guys!

Do you have a liege or someone whose standard you follow into battle? Have they complained? Or are your doubts coming from some other, a battle-brother? If someone with a right to an opinion has commented, you might want to consider it, but if these doubts are coming from within, put them from you.

Sorry, I should have made that clear: I'm not a squire, member of a household or anything like that, and nobody else has commented on my choices. I do count on fighting with my Barony (South Downs) against the Southern Consortium at Castle Wars (missed the most recent one because of injury), and with the Meridian contingent at Pennsic, in which case I feel that I'm representing my kingdom.

I should have also made it clear that I don't use a shield under any circumstances; tried one recently after a fifteen-year gap, and my aching shoulder reminded me why I gave them up in the first place. I know good shieldmen are the backbone of a line, but it's not really an option for me.

So in a melee, I typically am using a greatsword, glaive, or two swords. I do my utmost, and generally hold my own; on some occasions I've had good success as a flanker, or going after enemy flankers, or working in combination with a shieldman. But there are some scenarios (like a gate battle or a bridge battle) where the choices are pretty much sword-and-shield or spear; with anything else you'll be outranged and underdefended. Those scenarios are the only ones where I'm thinking of using a spear. Regardless of weapon choice, I do my utmost and can generally hold my own.

Maybe I'm creating a conflict where none exists. But I'm always interested in hearing the thoughts and experiences of other fighters, and frankly I'm getting a little stir-crazy after a month of being disabled. (Improving, though: I'm able to bend my knee enough to drive now; three more weeks and I should be able to do without the brace; a few months and the tendon should be healed enough to resume fighting.)

[Adriano]

Oswyn -- we all laugh at Aiden's poofy girly sleeves, but he doesn't do so bad, does he?

So you're one of the Tech guys? Great; I hope to see you before too long at South Downs practice!

[Koredono]

To answer your original question, I think you should do your best to help your side win, in a way that you find to be enjoyable. While you may not be getting as many kills with other weapons as you do with spear, that doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't an important part of your side's success nonetheless - if *everyone* on a given side had spears, odds are they'd get destroyed by a side made up of a well-balanced group of all of the weapons forms.

So, continue to use what you enjoy fighting with, so long as it's not completely useless (like two-sword on a bridge, for example); becuase you're enjoying yourself more, you'll fight more, and get better, such that your choice of form will not be seen as a detriment but an advantage.

For me, spear is something that I use only in limited-frontage battles (bridges, castles w/o salley ports, &c) because I don't have as much fun with it either (in open field melee - I have a lot of fun spear fencing either against a line, or in singles); for all other melee situations I use polearm (unless I get armed, but that's what back-up weapons are for), because it's what I do, I've gotten good enough that I'm much more effective with it, for my side, than I would be if I had a spear.

[Euric Germanicus]

Hmmm, this made me stop and think a minute.

I love fighting two sword. I would fight nothing else if my master didn't force...errrrr..."encourage" me to. (I am glad I know all forms at least a little, makes fighting them much easier.)

I'm also a sprinter, 23 and train for running/fighting quite a bit so I have harrier stamped on my forehead. I am also a solid shield, and by that I mean that if their is a wall vs wall standoff going on, I stay alive very well. (I'm Roman, and have a large oval.)

I take it by situation and the commanders put me in the role they need me as. Castle battle, Field Battle(maybe), Bridge Battle I'm a shield. Woods and Mountain Pass I'm two sword. Smaller events, two sword.

I think if you strike a balance everyone is happy.