What kind of breastblate is this?

Ahriman · Post by **Ahriman** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:40 am

Kat: that's a rather nice example of the bachterec... There are only 2 rings/lame, at least I made mine that way, and it's strong&flexible. Making with 4 holes means that you have to place the holes almost perfectly under each other... and as you can see on the pic, those holes are very small, so a 4-hole contsruction would make it almost like riveted together... which would make up to a not-so-useful piece.

BTW, that style was used well into the 18-19th century by others as well... e.g. the moros... but the turks have used it as well... and most of the Near Eastern horse armours are bachterec as well.

Donngal · Post by **Donngal** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:46 pm

Those Karwasz arm guards may become my first steel plate project, and I even already know how to do the brasswork. Does anyone know of any closeup images where the brass detail shows up?[/quote]

I have some pics at the shop, If I remeber the book tommorrow I will bring it home and scan a few.

The decor is pretty basic dimples and punch work.

Donngal

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:52 am

Russ Mitchell wrote:Yeah, pity you were out in Erd... (I think it was Erd.)
I haven't seen tons of them, but I've never seen a single one all the way to the top that wasn't Hungarian... not that I've gone trolling through the forbidden back corners of the armory...

Charles V, Philip II, and King Sebastian of Portugal all had anime that was lames from waist to neck. Charles V, and Philip II both had suits that had solid breastplates, but had lames below the belly button. All are in the Real Armeria in Madrid, unless I am mistaken, most were made in Germany.

Kat_H · Post by **Kat_H** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:16 pm

Ahriman, thanks for that clairification. What gauge did you use for your plates?

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:18 pm

Alcyoneus wrote:Charles V, Philip II, and King Sebastian of Portugal all had anime that was lames from waist to neck. Charles V, and Philip II both had suits that had solid breastplates, but had lames below the belly button. All are in the Real Armeria in Madrid, unless I am mistaken, most were made in Germany.

Fantastic: thanks for sharing the info. I don't suppose there's an armoury site?

DAVID01 · Post by **DAVID01** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:34 pm

Sasuke wrote:Er, thanks Sebastian
Here are some inside shots of the anime I did. I based the articulations off of inside shots I found of other Italian anime.
http://www.oaksarmoury.com/anime/anime3.jpg
http://www.oaksarmoury.com/anime/anime4.jpg

Basically sliders all the way up the center. Sliders up the sides of the upper plates. A mix of sliders and leathers for the lower plates. Makes for a very flexible breastplate.

Chris

Sasuke,
Do you have any more pics you'd share of this and anything else that goes with it? I'd really like to see more, I love it.

Thanks,David

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:36 am

Russ Mitchell wrote:
Alcyoneus wrote:Charles V, Philip II, and King Sebastian of Portugal all had anime that was lames from waist to neck. Charles V, and Philip II both had suits that had solid breastplates, but had lames below the belly button. All are in the Real Armeria in Madrid, unless I am mistaken, most were made in Germany.

Fantastic: thanks for sharing the info. I don't suppose there's an armoury site?

I don't know, off hand.

Calvert, Spanish A&A, 1907
Resplendence of the Spanish Monarchy, not sure of the pub date.

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:54 am

I have a question about the karwaszes. Does the whole guard rotate with the arm, or does the arm rotate inside it the way it would on any Western Euorpean floating vambrace that reaches way back like that? I mean it only has 2 straps, and they are way up in the front. Until this thread I never really looked at Hussar armour, and now I think it's one of the most amazing looking armours I have ever seen. Just seeing it has helped my mental design processes in a lot of ways. That and it is just so friggin GLORIOUS. These boys knew how to make a fashion statement....lol

Thanks,
Christopher

Ahriman · Post by **Ahriman** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:55 am

Well, those karwaszes are quite like bazubands... BTW, they ARE europised bazubands...

So they should work the same way... but as I use bazubands only as a base for my eastern gauntlets, I don't know much about REAL bazubands...

Yeah, hussar armour is cool... but when I'll have time to at last make one for myself, I'll modify it a bit.

Alcyoneus, thanks for the info! Now I'll like to see photos of those... because I still think that the first BP's design is unique to Hungary... Because the one Sasuke made is clearly different... at least to my eyes...

Kat: For the bechterec? 1.5mm plate, 12/2.5mm links for the mail, as usual. Yes, overkill and bulky and all, but most Hungarians can't/won't pay for riveted mail and spring steel plates. :evil:

Sasuke · Post by **Sasuke** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:48 am

DAVID01 wrote:Sasuke,
Do you have any more pics you'd share of this and anything else that goes with it? I'd really like to see more, I love it.

Thanks,David

Here is the page with the rest of the pictures:
http://www.oaksarmoury.com/anime.html

Here are some pictures of the pattern I made (I would make a lot of changes to it if making another one):
http://members.armourarchive.org/sasuke/animepattern/

Is there anything in particular you want to see?

Chris

Ahriman · Post by **Ahriman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:16 pm

Kat: I've found an example of bachterec made with 2 holes/side. Huge file, but you can see the details. Also note that it uses very, very narrow plates, so even with the 2hole/side construction, it's rather flexible.

Ahriman · Post by **Ahriman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:23 pm

It's bachterec as well, on a cuisse, this has 2-3 holes/side, but every link goes through only 1 hole.
1link through 2 holes, but note that the plates are again very narrow, and in this case, very thin AND the holes are comparitavely (is there such a word?) large. And a cuisse doesn't need too much movement.
So it seems it varies, but for that lame wideness you posted, I still think that 1through1 is the correct way. Sorry for the off, but thought I shouldn't open a new topic for this 2 pics.

clalibus · Post by **clalibus** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:39 am

sasuke, did you ever make the new pauldrons for the amine liek you notated?

i'm working on a piece with larger pauldrons similar in style to this and am a little concerned with contact/biting when reaching or throwing shots forwards, and would like to know opinions of individuals who have used them how to minimize this.

Sasuke · Post by **Sasuke** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:26 am

No. I never did. I rarely have time to work on anything for myself (the cobblers' children have no shoes...). Then after a few months I wasn't happy with how it turned out anyway, so I didn't want to waste anymore time on it. Some year I hope to make a new one since I really like the style.

Chris

clalibus · Post by **clalibus** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:44 am

have you, or any body else on this thread, done larger pauldrons like this, or parhaps a later 16th-17th spanish style? i'm trying to find the restrictiveness before i invest the time in a failed venture what might be able to be avoided. if nothing else i'll start a new thread

Sasuke · Post by **Sasuke** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:22 am

Yes, I have made larger ones. The restrictiveness depends on how well they interact with the breastplate. If they are articulated properly and shaped correctly, you can get full range of motion (or very close to it).

Chris