Exceptions and rare occurences

[St. George]

A couple of us were talking about exceptions and rare occurences in the Medieval era last night, and how in the SCA we often get many more examples of something that might have been a unique piece or action during the Middle Ages, and how common things often don't get replicated at all. In particular we were discussing the armors that were worn at Hastings, and how most of them on the Bayeaux Tapestry appear to be mail, yet there were some that looked like they could have been padded or lamellar suits as well. If someone did a Hastings recreation, however, and everyone showed up in Lamellar and Padded gear, it just wouldn't look right. Likewise there are very few (maybe only 1) extant version of a segmented chestplate, yet in the SCA there are many people who wear them, almost to the point of ubiquitousness.

This seems to be the path that we take in the SCA, though- the path of least resistance.

What do you think this might be the result of?

Do you think that the excuse- "it happened once," or "there is one example" is enough to substantiate a claim? Or should individual instances be discounted in recreation?

Do people look for the easiest track? Or do they maybe just copy what is around them?

Alaric

[Broadway]

What do you think this might be the result of?

I think that for the most part, people have an idea in their head of what they want to look like on the battlefield. Then, they put together a suit. If the person thinks "I want to look like I'm from the Battle of Hastings" and then realize they cannot afford mail... they look for a cheaper option. Or, they think the mail won't protect them enough, and look for something else. It doesn't matter if there is only 1 example in 100 on the tapestry that lets the person get away with what they want to pull off.

Do you think that the excuse- "it happened once," or "there is one example" is enough to substantiate a claim? Or should individual instances be discounted in recreation?

Depends on what the goal is. I don't think it matters much within the SCA though... if it happened once, or if it was common. As long as the person is going the extra mile to actually try to portray something realistic... I'm happy.

Do people look for the easiest track? Or do they maybe just copy what is around them?

Both. Or, what is readily available. I remember when I would work with Gundo in his shop on occasion... folks from around the area would come up and make armour with us. Most were getting into SCA combat.

One example... a fellow came down, and wanted to make a coat of plates... but noticed that Gundo had a segmented churburg cut out. He asked Gundo about it, and found out that it was an old project nobody cared about anymore... so the guy dished out and assembled the segmented breastplate, and that's what he wore...

Thats how quick he changed his mind. I saw that happen alot.

[mrks]

hmmm

there are many who get a kick out of jacking the system. the "I saw it once so its period crowd". the worse are the flourescent color folks who say its documentable. most of this kind of mentality comes from the artsy crowd and the fighters just pick it by exposure.

might be a little off topic...

I think sca stick fighting is just that.

I wear the most efficient combat worthy armour I can make... flexible light weight and protective.

its all of my own design that hopefully recreates some of the period look without hindering my performance too much. ie: open barred close helm versus a closed face. I was working on an exchange for it until I decided it was too heavy. you can see it in the helm thread: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... 022#688022

being in a suit of plate costs me performance that the big bruisers do not have to wear. they can just take the hits.

I think that most sca stuff that is worn by the performance minded fighters is built with winning in mind.

when you first start it is made to get yourself onthe field and be protective.

as a fighter matures so does his armour.

mrks

[Odo]

Do you think that the excuse- "it happened once," or "there is one example" is enough to substantiate a claim? Or should individual instances be discounted in recreation?

Do people look for the easiest track? Or do they maybe just copy what is around them?

Alaric

I think that this reasoning is enough. Actually I think that for the most part whether it happened at all doesn't really matter when someone is just beginning (unless they are led down that path). Most folks just want to get on the field and fight ( I include myself in this group).

I do not confuse the SCA for anything other than what it is, stick fighting. The armor worn is SCA armor, the techniques used are SCA based and the outcome is unique to the SCA. Good or bad, that is how I see it. Those folks who wear historically accurate gear and use historically researched techniques have my admiration, but they are outside of the scope of the SCA in general.

For what its worth, that is my opinion,
Odo

[Kilkenny]

A couple of us were talking about exceptions and rare occurences in the Medieval era last night, and how in the SCA we often get many more examples of something that might have been a unique piece or action during the Middle Ages, and how common things often don't get replicated at all. In particular we were discussing the armors that were worn at Hastings, and how most of them on the Bayeaux Tapestry appear to be mail, yet there were some that looked like they could have been padded or lamellar suits as well. If someone did a Hastings recreation, however, and everyone showed up in Lamellar and Padded gear, it just wouldn't look right. Likewise there are very few (maybe only 1) extant version of a segmented chestplate, yet in the SCA there are many people who wear them, almost to the point of ubiquitousness.

This seems to be the path that we take in the SCA, though- the path of least resistance.

What do you think this might be the result of?

Do you think that the excuse- "it happened once," or "there is one example" is enough to substantiate a claim? Or should individual instances be discounted in recreation?

Do people look for the easiest track? Or do they maybe just copy what is around them?

Alaric

By what reasoning do you reach "path of least resistance" here ?

If the more unusual examples appear commonly, how does that suggest a "least resistance" approach ? I would think that evidence would push toward an opposite conclusion - that people were going after the rarer exemplars which, rather on its face, would be a path of greater resistance.

Now, the conclusion - on average the SCA takes a least resistance path... there's likely truth to that. Why ? As many reasons as there are people doing it.

In broad strokes - "I wanna play Now!" probably explains some portion of it.
"Sir Hasashop helped me build it. It's alot like his armor" probably explains another good sized portion.

"I can do it myself" with the resulting reinvention of the wheel and all that goes along with this path explains a bunch more.

"I'll stay in blue plastic forever just to torque off so-and-so" probably fits some portion. ( I hope it's a small one...)

"I can't afford the pretty armor" is probably one of the most overused excuses.

The tendency toward the unusual stuff that is historic but not common ? Lots of people like to be different, so there's an appeal to the one of a kind helm - then they find that 100 other SCA people who feel exactly the same way found that same unusual example, and all built or had it built and their unusual helm is suddenly an SCA-ism.

[Josh W]

Odo and Kilkenny are both peers of some sort, right?

Did you ever notice how it's often the SCA higher-ups, that is those with arguably the greatest emotional investment in the game, who act as its primary apologists, defending it, warts and all, and striving to keep it from growing beyond what it was in the 1970's?

Just an observation...

[Kilkenny]

Odo and Kilkenny are both peers of some sort, right?

Did you ever notice how it's often the SCA higher-ups, that is those with arguably the greatest emotional investment in the game, who act as its primary apologists, defending it, warts and all, and striving to keep it from growing beyond what it was in the 1970's?

Just an observation...

Funny. What's Alaric ?

Gavin
Duke, Knight, Pelican

[St. George]

Me? I'm a jerk who wants people to put a little effort into their little effort.

I do think that you hit at least one nail on the head, Gavin, when you wrote that lots of people in the SCA want to be individuals, and they all make the one unique piece and thn find that everyone else has made it too.

I do have a related comment about that- there seems to be a lot of people in the SCA who try to look "badass" instead of "medieval."

I can't say I blame them, but I really think that has more to do with the prevalence of black leather armor, and "conan the barbarianisms" than anything else. I mean I definitely want to look cool too, but my definition is probably slightly different from their's.

As far as path of least resistance, I think Gavin also touched on that- the path might have been Sir Hasashop helped me build this. Unfortunately, in that area, often the local Sir Hasashop only knows how to build completely inaccurate things, which is unfortunate for the SCA.

Alaric

edited because I forgot the winky face

[Murdock]

If Duke Alaric is a Jerk then i must be a homicidal mainiac.

cool with me.

We need more dukes that wanna look like .. well a medieval Duke.. than wanna look modern cool.


" Likewise there are very few (maybe only 1) extant version of a segmented chestplate, yet in the SCA there are many people who wear them, almost to the point of ubiquitousness"


The very reason i went with a solid globose instead of a Churburg 13.

[morristh]

If Duke Alaric is a Jerk then i must be a homicidal mainiac.

cool with me.

We need more dukes that wanna look like .. well a medieval Duke.. than wanna look modern cool.


" Likewise there are very few (maybe only 1) extant version of a segmented chestplate, yet in the SCA there are many people who wear them, almost to the point of ubiquitousness"


The very reason i went with a solid globose instead of a Churburg 13.

There are reasons to go with a #13 as well. Such as a SALE

Seriously though, of the metal breastplate variations for armor, the segmented versions (and there are numerous variations on the original) to me appear to be the most adaptable. Lets face it guys, people that have serious weight loss or gain have a hard time with single piece breast plates. With the segmented versions, I can do some simple mods and make it at least semi fit.


Tim

[Krieghund]

I am probably going to regret this, but here goes:

I am a simple squire that is interested, but not overly zealous, about finding a nice kit for myself that works well in SCA combat as well as represents my persona (after a fashion). I am slowly investing in upgrading parts/pieces of my armour, as well as assisting my Lovely and Patience Lady-Wife in sewing the "soft kit" portion of my harness.

Some of the difficulties I've had have been in recreating something that hasn't existed in quite some time. The other is problem lies in the fact that most SCAdians in this area don't go for padded cuisses/chausses, but would rather "look cool" in shiny new spring steel.

Now, to be fair, I must admit that I do, in fact, agree that the spring steel looks great. But I would be equally impressed with a well done soft-kit that could be seen in the Bayeux tapestry.

In sum, I would have to disagree with His Grace and say that it is not ALL young SCAdians that seek to take "the path of least resistance". The amount of work I put into my kit is considerable. I could just as easily write a check, cash in on the gothic armour look and abandon the 14th C. altogether. As is, I'm slowly trying to get to a good transition kit on my own. Because, let's face it...in the picture below, I don't exactly embody "badass".

P.S. Since this event I've upgraded my poleyns (they are now correctly shaped) and my bascinet (Windrose's standard bascinet)

[Richard GateCrasher]

I think it has to do more with Press. Tapestry's an what not have individuals trying to portray something that looks "cool" at the time.

King Hasashop says "makes me a tapestry yee... and put loads of them chaps with wearing whats nots in them.. me thinks they look the devil"

then again, when things are researched, one finds more portraits as well. Portraits of the rich n famous of the times mayhaps.

When someone thinks of medievil, perhaps someones thought is of that knight in shining armour.

[Morgan]

I have a general question. Why SHOULDN'T someone who "grew up" with the status quo, excelled with the status quo, and enjoys the status quo think the status quo is good?

I'm not saying they can't. Everyone has a right ot their own opinion. But I always wonder why someone who likes things "the way they are" gets bashed while somoene who wants change is heralded.

[James B.]

I find the SCA and reenactment is not much different than any other "dorky" hobby. Like comic books, anime, or Sci Fi fans people in the SCA get into trends and latch of to things they find "cool". Lets face it odd stuff is cool, who wants to be typical? I think the reason it happens more in the SCA than reenactment is the set rules, SCA has few.

I myself make a habit of doing the typical/common with my cloths and armor. I like to stand out for looking historical not for looking odd.

[Broadway]

But... if everybody portrayed the commonly occuring in history aspects of the middle ages... where would all the samuri and native americans go?

[Odo]

Odo and Kilkenny are both peers of some sort, right?

Did you ever notice how it's often the SCA higher-ups, that is those with arguably the greatest emotional investment in the game, who act as its primary apologists, defending it, warts and all, and striving to keep it from growing beyond what it was in the 1970's?

Just an observation...

I am a peer of some sort, just haven't figured it out. Please help me Josh.

I would say that your observation is spot on. Those folks (myself included) who have invested time, effort and emotional energy into the SCA would also be the most defensive of the organization. It makes sense.

I think where you make the mistake is thinking that I do not appreciate the accuracy that some people strive for and attain. I personally think it is awesome and would encourage those who want to create a more medieval ambience to go for it. Also, I do encourage those folks who have crappy looking armor to improve.

Now with that said, I think the sticking point is where each one of us draws the line when it comes to authenticity ( Please refer to my comments about being SCA appropriate and authentic.
). Obviously, my expectation is lower than Alaric's. I do not hate him for having a higher standard, and I do not think he is a jerk because of that standard. If he started to badger me enough I may think he is a dick, not for his belief's but for his actions. I hope you see the difference.
Personally, I really dig seeing a cool kit on the field. But in the end I want to hit the guy wearing plastic just as much as I want to hit the guy in completely authentic gear. As long as I can physically afford to do this I will bring my fight to anyone who wants to do a little dance. Period.

Odo

[Hrogn]

I think the answer is pretty simple. SCA rattan fighting is different than medieval fighting with a real steel sword. So armour that is optimal for our sport is different than what is period. Maille is great against slashing steel so you see a lot of it in period accounts. Rattan doesn't actually cut very well because it is wood so we don't need protection from slashing. It does however bludgeon pretty well so our armour is more suited for that.

We also aren't in much actual danger. I used to fight in just a thin leather kidney belt for body armour. Worst I got was some bruises. Nothing even close to an actual injury. So we don't actually need a lot of protection if a guy is willing to take a little pain. Pain is different than injury. Pain just hurts. Injury ends your day. So if a guy is serious about fighting well, it is a valid strategy to forego lots of armour in exchange for mobility and speed. So once again, there is less motivation for full period armour.

So from this you get the popularity of lamellar. Protects well vs. bludgeon attacks. Isn't rigid like plate so it allows mobility. Looks pretty good. Lightweight if you use the right materials. And it fits any price range. You can get it in a variety of materials such as plastic, leather or even aluminum and titanium. So the result is that you have a bunch of guys wearing lamellar even though maille is clearly more accurately period.

Hrogn

[Maeryk]

Do you think that the excuse- "it happened once," or "there is one example" is enough to substantiate a claim? Or should individual instances be discounted in recreation?

Part of it, I think, comes from misunderstanding what "surviving example" means.

I'm going to talk furniture, because I don't know that much about armor.

But extant furniture seems typically to be either "Special pieces" (Voxthorpe chest, for instance) or comissioned pieces (Something in a castle collection) far less than "daily pieces".

The "common" stuff was used.. and used up and replaced, etc. The "special stuff" was what ended up sitting in collections.

I think we do ourselves a disfavor by looking ONLY to extant.. Sure.. it is very obvious that that ONE PIECE existed.. but there are certain things you learn when you build something "the way they did".. you find that in some cases it simply makes more sense to do it a "different way".. and we tend to discount that. On the third hand, that can also be taken to a ridiculous extreme.

Maeryk

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

Personally, I am kind of striving to be the everyday looking chap out there, but part of that is that I am doing 12th century and there wasnt a lot of inventiveness going on. I am about to get a norman conical helm and wear lots of maille. I will be trying to do a generic minor noble who went to the Holy Land to get rich and "inherit" land. About the only thing I am still working on that would make me "unique" is ailettes and trying to date the beginning of them. I think that lots of people want to be able to be instantly recognized and do their own thing and lots of people (myself included) start out with whatever is easiest, both because it is easy/cheap, or we dont know what we want to do but we like to fight. I think that the only piece of my kit that I authorized in that I am planning on keeping is my sword, shield and maybe kidney belt (under a gambeson). Everything else will be slowly replaced. When I first got in, I was looking at Agincourt and 100 Years War and dropping back around 300-400 years is a real change. But it helped get me out there. Most people just stick with what works, and change around if a piece of armour is uncomfortable/blatantly OOP for them (aka a celtic guy wearing a sallet). If it isnt that big of a deal for them, or they see a lot of people doing it, they wont change. There is also a percentage of fighters who simply enjoy fighting for fighting (SCA style) and whatever works for them is fine, be it WWF kidney belts and fully open face helms, etc. Once people see an exception on the field, they also might not realize that it wasnt done as little as it was back then. The other problem (and this is not a bash, just an observation, I understand to run a business, the customer is right) is that it is easier to pick up some of these "off style" armours than it is to get a "normal" one. If you cant make it yourself, and again dont look it up, you could get fooled into thinking certain types of armour were more common and it is easier to buy a gereri-sized Churburg than someone making a custom full breastplate.

[Mord]

Hmmm....

Common is, well, hard to ascertain. The discipline of history requires a beginning at a time and a place, so as an example, please let me begin with that. The specific example I want to use the swords found at Birka. Birka is a well known, well used, and often abused example, which is why it comes to my mind.

There are some 1166 documented graves from Birka. Most of these graves are cremation graves--the body is burned and then buried in an urn, sometimes with objects, sometimes not. However, about 120 graves--roughly 10%--are chamber graves. Here is the body is placed in a prepared stucture, often with a great variety of objects. It is these objects that attract much of our attention. N. Ringstedt has conducted a statistical analysis of the chamber graves, first dividing them by gender. Female chamber graves almost never have weapons (a knife not necessarily being a weapon) in them, so the percentage of swords buried at Birka is much less than 10%. Furthermore, not all male chamber graves have swords in them, so the percentage of swords found in the entire cemetery is very low.

Swords are rare--that is to say uncommon--burial objects at Birka, and yet, this small percentage of swords are the only examples of swords found there. Much has been made about these swords--analysis has been conducted by such folks as Arwidsson and Ringstedt.

Gotta go...

Mord.

[Mord]

Hmmm....

Common is, well, hard to ascertain. The discipline of history requires a beginning at a time and a place, so as an example, please let me begin with that. The specific example I want to use the swords found at Birka. Birka is a well known, well used, and often abused example, which is why it comes to my mind.

There are some 1166 documented graves from Birka. Most of these graves are cremation graves--the body is burned and then buried in an urn, sometimes with objects, sometimes not. However, about 120 graves--roughly 10%--are chamber graves. Here is the body is placed in a prepared stucture, often with a great variety of objects. It is these objects that attract much of our attention. N. Ringstedt has conducted a statistical analysis of the chamber graves, first dividing them by gender. Female chamber graves almost never have weapons (a knife not necessarily being a weapon) in them, so the percentage of swords buried at Birka is much less than 10%. Furthermore, not all male chamber graves have swords in them, so the percentage of swords found in the entire cemetery is very low.

Swords are rare--that is to say uncommon--burial objects at Birka, and yet, this small percentage of swords are the only examples of swords found there. Much has been made about these swords--analysis has been conducted by such folks as Arwidsson and Ringstedt.

Gotta go...

Mord.

As I was posting...

What is documented and studied is not necessarily "common," yet this is what is avialable to those folks interested. I have often wondered what is missing in the scholarship of the entire time, not simply a specific place. As ever, you have to consider the source--what it can say and what it says.

Mord.

[Guy Dawkins]

So if what was left to us may not have been 'common' then what may have been 'common' is left to conjecture.

And you know where that can lead!

[Aaron]

I'm making an attempt to be a minor noble of England during the War of the Roses.

It's an attempt.

But it's based on intact pieces and pictures of the time.

But, only a small fraction (maybe 5%) of the troops were armoured this way.

Therefore, is what I do an abbaration?

-Aaron

[St. George]

It is a good attempt. You still have some work to do, but given that you are making an attempt, you probably know the things that are right and wrong about your own harness, because you researched it, and I am willing to bet consistently working to make it better.

By making this attempt you are an aberration in the SCA. It is obvious that you are trying to be something specific. You have on a certain style of shoulder, and a Sallet. Plus, when you mention that you are trying to do War of the Roses, the attempt becomes plainly obvious.

The gentle you are fighting against, however, has made no such attempt. That person is wearing something, in my opinion, just to get onto the field.

Here is something to consider regarding the 5% number. If the SCA were a War of the Roses recreation group, and everyone tried to dress in a noble fashion, then when they went onto the field they would look odd- just like if everyone in a Roman group dressed like a centurion or general. However, because in the SCA the time period is not very limiting, the oddness of you standing out as a 5%'er is meaningless when you are surrounded by 14th century guys, Vikings, Romans, and even the occasional Aztec.

Alaric

[James B.]

I'm making an attempt to be a minor noble of England during the War of the Roses.

But it's based on intact pieces and pictures of the time.

But, only a small fraction (maybe 5%) of the troops were armoured this way.

Therefore, is what I do an abbaration?

Aaron

I would say no, you are specifically trying to play a noble with a full suit of armor; you are aiming to have a normal suit. What would be an example of over done would be 3 or for guys wearing the Sigismund suit of armor which is considered a one time masterwork of armor.

Sir Mord makes a perfect example that Viking reenactors mess up on, everyone looks at a wealth grave that might have even been a king or something and use the bits from that grave to make a common Viking kit.

Another example would be my WotRs soldiers kit for Lord Grey’s Retinue. I have had a long sword on my hip for 2 years now, I have been looking at the imagery of soldiers for a long time to try and get to be fully common, I notice maybe 1 in 90 has a long sword. This year I will have a common style short sword on my hip.

[Sir Guy]

Your Grace,

<<The gentle you are fighting against, however, has made no such attempt. That person is wearing something, in my opinion, just to get onto the field. >>

While I think what you say would normally be the case, the person you are referring to is a South African living in Korea teaching English and making very little money, not to mention the lack of resources and such from living in Korea, I can tell you it is very hard to get anything done, or even explain what you are looking for. That and he was doing us a favor by fighting in the Baronial Coronet Tourney, without him I think we would have been down to 4 fighters instead of the five minimum we needed for the Tourney. So we was kitted out just to get on the field. . the gentle you see did sew his own tunic to cover the rest of his armor. So I think it could be said he is making an attempt within his means.

While Lord William (Aaron) has the money as a Army Medical Service Officer and the infrastructure living on a military base in Japan, to Kit Himself out in a manner many of this list would find pleasing.

I think this is a good case on how peoples circumstances can greatly affect the sort of kit they can put together.

Hope Your Well.

Sir Guy

[Aaron]

Good Day,

I would like to publically agree with Sir Guy (yet again... ).

Lord Ptule is a wonderful gentleman who puts together a good suit with minimal available resources in a difficult country for availability of resources and still was able to put on a very nice presentation and an excellent fight.

After he armed me, he let me switch to dagger instead of flailing around ineffectively with a one-armed pollaxe. He's a gentleman and fun to fight.

He's even helped me out with getting my armour on regularly, and even his vocal accent adds a bit of flavor to all the events I've been at with him. It just feels more real than my Californian accent...

At no time was I attempting to defraud my fellow fighters or put down their armour or spirit.

Their presentation was quite good in my opinion. I can point out flaws in my own keep with ease. I cannot do the same with theirs.

My concern was that 5% figure -- an armoured man-at-arms during the War of the Roses WAS an abbaration...so the question was, am I?


Thank you,

-Aaron

[Josh W]

Look at it this way, Aaron: I doubt that even 5% of the SCA is equipped anything like a WOR-era man-at-arms would have been. You don't look out of place.

[morristh]

Look at it this way, Aaron: I doubt that even 5% of the SCA is equipped anything like a WOR-era man-at-arms would have been. You don't look out of place.

LOLOLOLOL

Seeing people in either transitional or full plate is a serious eye candy for me. Im used to less refined displays
Tim

[Aaron]

Look at it this way, Aaron: I doubt that even 5% of the SCA is equipped anything like a WOR-era man-at-arms would have been. You don't look out of place.

Hi Josh,

It really doesn't matter what everyone else does. I can only evaluate myself...but that being said, I've always liked your kit.

Especially the "bathroom humor" shot. You have GOT to post that one again! Please! I'd buy a T-shirt of that shot...

I'm blessed with a good family, good wife and the means to put on a good show if I try. Some are not blessed in exactly the same way.

I'm also blessed with really, really bad vision when I take off my glasses. And I have a very active imagination...so EVERYONE looks just perfect when I fight out there. But I know my presentation is NOT perfect...

My only objection is that after they beat me on the field, I would like them not to shout "Get some plastic, moron!" or something to that effect.

I didn't enjoy that very much when it was encountered in another Kingdom.

It should be obvious that I didn't just suddenly sprout this suit, and plastic really isn't an option for me(except for my cup). I've seen very nice plastic suits, and appreciate them.

For others plastic is completely appropriate for protection or simulating laminated leather.

My objection is people insulting me BECAUSE I armour up the way I do.

I have absolutely no intention of ever insulting someone else down because they armour up they way they do. I've been on the insult receiving end too often because of my steel to insult someone over their plastic or appearance. And, it doesn't help one bit.

I can offer help, resources, books, dinner at the house, time and effort, but never, ever insults or put-downs.

If I've insulted anyone, please accept my apologies, please!

-Aaron

[Duke Gunnar]

Aaron,

Wow. I must say I really appreciate your attitude. I very much admire someone for putting a lot of effort into their garb and armor. That admiration can be dramaticly dimmed when that someone makes unkind remarks about others. Rasing the standard by example and encouragement is much more in line with the virtues we are supposed to espouse than bashing people. I wish more people emulated your example.

[Josh W]

Thank you for the praise, Aaron. Your kit is beginning to look pretty darn good, too. When did you get that awesome cuirass? I must have missed that...


I'll see what I can do about that T-shirt...

[Aaron]

Thank you for the praise, Aaron. Your kit is beginning to look pretty darn good, too. When did you get that awesome cuirass? I must have missed that...


I'll see what I can do about that T-shirt...

Ken Zicker made it. He's a genuis that charges to little. If he doesn't raise his prices soon the "Known World" will swamp him with orders.

-Aaron

[Aaron]

Aaron,

Wow. I must say I really appreciate your attitude. I very much admire someone for putting a lot of effort into their garb and armor. That admiration can be dramaticly dimmed when that someone makes unkind remarks about others. Rasing the standard by example and encouragement is much more in line with the virtues we are supposed to espouse than bashing people. I wish more people emulated your example.

Your Grace,

Thank you for the most gracious compliments!

All that is required is really, really bad vision. Please note the red tips on all my weapons...

tap...tap...tap...where's my armoured guide dog?...tap...tap...

I actually do enjoy bashing people...with my pollaxe. Now if they would just stay still for a minute or two...

-Aaron

[Euric Germanicus]

Aaron,

Contact lenses!

As I fit them for a living, if you want any info about them please ask. I'm not your eyecare provider and all that jazz, but I can point you in the right direction.

If you think you fight well now, being able to SEE the man you want to hit will make you all the better