viking and late 14th c waterskins

Wyrm · Post by **Wyrm** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:49 am

can someone please refer me to images or designs or even patterns for making leather water containers for both the viking age and for a late 14th century portrayal. thanks.

Dave Womble · Post by **Dave Womble** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:40 pm

I havn't seen any examples (archeological, artistic or literary) of Viking Age waterskins....I'm not saying there were none, just saying I havnt read anything about what they may have looked like. Lots of Examples of buckets and pails, and examples of bags and pouches, but I havn't seen anything about leather waterskins. I'd assume they would have looked much like other ancient/medieval waterskins...made of animal bladders.

Dave

matthijs · Post by **matthijs** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:37 am

The museum of London has some leather water bottles from (iirc) the fourteenth or fifteenth century. One looks like a barrel on itÃ‚Â´s side. there are two round sides and the main body (basically a rectangular piece of leather) has a seam starting at either end curving upwards to form a snout in the middle.
The other one stands on a round section and has a snout at the top and a seam running along one side.

T. Finkas · Post by **T. Finkas** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:14 pm

I think there may have been an extant wineskin (fragments) from the wreck of the Spanish ship Atocha. But that's very late (16th century) with regards to the period you are targeting.

Just for interest, here's a pic of a basic water/wine flask made by Matt Amt for one of his Myceneaen portrayals:
http://whoa.femail.com/hoplite/flask1.jpg

IIRC, the Atocha flask is more or less the same. The design seems "timeless" in a way.

Haldan · Post by **Haldan** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:40 pm

Not making any claims of accuracy but you might try tis link http://geocities.com/ladysveva/Leather/ ... terns.html

I've made these and they are kinda fun to make.

Russ Holmes

Buran · Post by **Buran** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:45 pm

How about a flacket for ya?
http://www.geocities.com/baldurstrand/b ... ottle.html

Cap'n Atli · Post by **Cap'n Atli** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:48 pm

I think that there's an Anglo-Saxon fragment of pottery of a water bottle made to look (shape, inscribed straps) like a water skin.

I'll see if I can find my Anglo-Saxon pottery book, or ask our potter, Jan Derry.

If they're making ceramic models of leather objects, then quid pro quo...

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:44 am

Yes there is. See photo below. 11th century Anglo-Saxon. I have the book reference somewhere, if you want it.

Buran · Post by **Buran** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:05 pm

Nice. I wonder if there's a significance behind the "X" as in X marks the spot, or "Good Stuff, XXX".

Wyrm · Post by **Wyrm** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:43 pm

very nice, thanks for that Egfroth. Now if that is made of pottery, would it be plausable to assume such leather skins existed in this form.

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:16 pm

Oh, I think so. Look at the fake stitch marks. The prevailing assumption is certainly that this is a pottery copy of a leather original. By the way, it's incredibly similar to a leather water bottle found on the Mary Rose (sank in 1545).

Wyrm · Post by **Wyrm** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:27 am

I guess certain tried and true designs stay around for centuries. I think the 'X' is prabably purely aesthetic. I cant work out any practical significance it would have.

Mikael · Post by **Mikael** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:55 am

To imitate leather strips for suspending the bottle securely?
Just a guess.

Cap'n Atli · Post by **Cap'n Atli** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:45 pm

That's the quid pro quo part in my post above: without a model, the artifact would not exist in this particualr form.

I've always interpreted the X as decorative or suspensive strapping.

...and were it not for that one artifact, someone would state: "Oh no, we have absolutely no evidence for such a thing in such a context."

Buran · Post by **Buran** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:00 pm

Wyrm wrote:I guess certain tried and true designs stay around for centuries. I think the 'X' is prabably purely aesthetic. I cant work out any practical significance it would have.

Of course I was kidding. You don't poke any holes in your bottel, at least no more than you absolutely need. The two suspension holes at the "ears" should be enough.

Karen Larsdatter · Post by **Karen Larsdatter** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:15 pm

Some additional costrels in artwork (15th century):
http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/116.htm
http://gallica.bnf.fr/image?L=07827186&I=000001
http://www.wga.hu/html/g/goes/calvary/calvar11.html

Related links:
http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks/i ... &catid=532

Wyrm · Post by **Wyrm** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:30 pm

thanks for those links karen. interesting.

my wife has made a few leather waterskins in the design of the pottery example above. will post pics when/if she takes some.