It's finally happened.

[Broadway]

These guys are D&D guys who never did a stage dive in their lives. Never fought skinheads or cops. Never overdid anything. Man, it makes me really mad.

Wanna little cheeze to go with that whine, Sir?

[Vitus von Atzinger]

I'm bitching...there is a difference.

[WilliamThomas]

These guys are D&D guys who never did a stage dive in their lives. Never fought skinheads or cops. Never overdid anything. Man, it makes me really mad.

Well as a D&D guy, I will say this. I can guarantee I have been in more fights both in and out of the ring than I care to ever talk about. I can’t say I have wasted my time fighting cops or too many skinhead, but I have stomped a hole in the chest of more than my share of knock-down, drag-out hell-bent punk rock pieces of dung.

Who in the heck are you to look down on these people, calling them nerds or desk monkeys because they chose to take the high road and take care of themselves, to think about tomorrow.

I think I am going to just stop here… cause I have nothing of value to add to this crap

John Sheppard

[jester]

The problem I have is that when SCA brothers-in-arms who have not lived the knock-down, drag-out hell-bent punk rock life I have start giving me crap about not fighting at certain events.

You are only one of several Knights/Peers I have heard express this general sentiment. I suggest it indicates that people are taking the game way too seriously and represents a serious organizational problem that the SCA (or constituent kingdoms) should address.

[Sean Powell]

To Clarify, My advice that included combat archery was directed towards Sean Powell. And to further clarify, is not meant in any way to hurt. I have spent time injured in this game and it is scary to contemplate your body's failure to act to your will.

Thanks but when the only way to play the game left to me is combat archery... I'll be the busiest marshal and field herald I can be. Rattan is a weapon, golf-tubes are toys. Just my personal oppinion but I'll be damn surprised the day they knight someone for accuracy with a golf-tube.

Vitus, I'm sorry to hear that you are in pain but every time this D&D playing computer jocky takes the field I curse the fact that they pay me to lead an unhealthy, inactive lifestyle. I'd give a lot to have seen life through your eyes but I didn't and I'm not about to start now so we'll just have to sit around the fire nursing our war wounds, sharing a beer and telling stories of what once was or could have been.

Xrays were taken today. Should see the Orthopedic hand specialist in about a week. I'm already seeing one Orthopod for my knees, why not another. (I'm going to start selling advertizing space for orthopods on my armor to offset the PT costs)

Sean

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Sean, it's okay to yell at me about this. I was out of line. I apologize to anyone and everyone who may have been irked by that stupid outburst.

The point I was trying to make is that damage is damage- you either got it or ya don't. Some damage just will not go away no matter how pissed off you get at it. I am VERY relieved that I know what is wrong but I am seriously pissed off that I can't pop it like a zit and make it go away.

Again, I am not sore at all about being told to F**k off when I deserve it. I deserved it!

[Russ Mitchell]

And that's why I like you, Vitus. If only more people were more than happy to catch a clue-by-four when they needed it, the world would be a better place.

(frequent swinger and recipient of clue-by-four speaking...)

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Hey, I care about the Grand Experiment. When you care about it, you gotta be able to admit that you are sometimes being a dork.
I was.
I'm pissed.
I'm looking to throw a tantrum bacause of this shit.
And I'm sorry that I did it poorly.

[Tibbie Croser]

Vitus, you mentioned equestrian studies. Do you already ride?

There's a lot of pleasure from riding, even without smacking people with a lance. There can be a lot of frustration, too; no matter how big and strong you are, the horse is bigger and stronger.

[DELETEMYACCOUNT]

The problem I have is that when SCA brothers-in-arms who have not lived the knock-down, drag-out hell-bent punk rock life I have start giving me crap about not fighting at certain events. Well, sometimes I CAN"T MOVE WITHOUT WINCING.
It pisses me off. They are nerds and desk monkeys. I have lived hard and played HARD all my life. My entire life. It's amazing I'm alive.
I can barely move sometimes. These guys are D&D guys who never did a stage dive in their lives. Never fought skinheads or cops. Never overdid anything.
Man, it makes me really mad.

This just illustrated a point to me amazingly clear. Just a difference between your group and mine. When I was unable to fight because of the back surgery and subsequent rehab 'learn how to walk again' drama, I didnt wanna go to events because obviously I couldnt fight, maybe never be able to fight again. Well, my dog brothers told me to get my fat ass to events anyway. And to this day I fight when I can and do other things when it just hurts too bad, or the footing is too treacherous.
Far from being told I'm slacking, or getting any kind of lip at all, they seek me out for training and education because they understand clearly that even though I deal with physical limitations now, I made my bones and no residual paralysis will change that. Hell, some of the dogs I trained have come to me and said if anyone ever gave me crap about this sort of thing THEY would kick a soft spot in their asses. Support like this, the honor and respect, this is the reason I can still be around this pack of wolves that is my family.
You are obviously a well respected representative of your group. An example looked to by those that havent even met you face to face, yet your group doesnt give you the same respect you've obviously earned?
This makes me sad. In no way am I suggesting you rest on laurels, or coast, all I'm saying is that there needs to be respect based on what you've accomplished and understanding to the price you payed to achieve that.
I hope your shoulder gets better. Take care of yourself.

[Hubert]

Animal, I think the issue there could also possibly be one of visibility. In your case it was outwardly visible, hence essentially reinforced to everyone that hey he's really badly hurt, and he's getting over surgery, in Vitus' case there (just wildly guessing mind you), it may be that it's not quite as visible, there's been no surgery, and being a degenerative condition so it might not really catalyze with people quite as much, and they may not understand the severity of the problem. Or I could be talking right out of my ass which I do too often

As for the depression, as one who does occasionally fight a pretty black one and has been known to lash out a few times, I certainly understand. I've always felt it's the larger measure of the man to recognize when you've been a dick and make amends or apologize for it. So to that regard I'd say good on ya Sir Vitus.

[DELETEMYACCOUNT]

I hear you Hubert and that is reasonable to say. What struck me though is that no matter the reason for the problem, visible or otherwise, it seems to me that once earned the respect should be given. If you're some douchebag that showed up from time to time and never really did anything that's one thing. But once you've proven yourself you should get that respect.
Just my opinion.

[Maeryk]

Eh. I've gotten plenty of good natured crap about the fact that I have 2K worth of armour in the garage, that has never been worn. I have health issues right now that make it impossible for me to fight. Someday as they clear up, I will be back in the saddle. Or I won't.

SOme of the crap has not been so good natured. I figure if someone can only judge me by armor time, and can only judge another persons worth by how much they fight, that is a failing in them, not a failing in me. I have heartily told a few of them to get bent, painfully, and not with a smiley-face at the end.

Theres more to life than stick swinging. A LOT MORE. I'm certainly not knocking those who do it, and love to do it.. more power to you. If you love it, and it is your drive and desire, good on'ya. I am knocking those who cannot resist transposing their own desires and drives onto others, and thinking less of them for it.

Maeryk

[Hubert]

I hear you Hubert and that is reasonable to say. What struck me though is that no matter the reason for the problem, visible or otherwise, it seems to me that once earned the respect should be given. If you're some douchebag that showed up from time to time and never really did anything that's one thing. But once you've proven yourself you should get that respect.
Just my opinion.

I couldn't agree more.

[Johann ColdIron]

Vitus,

I deal with a form of arthritis in the same family as yours. Ankylosing Spondilitis. Most of my problems are in the shoulders and neck. Frustrating doesn't describe it.

Two things have kept me going... Desire to continue what I love and modern medications.

The desire has inspired me to evolve and learn blows that I CAN throw and movement I CAN do. I find that some of the blows I throw now are more effective because they work with my bodies limitations not against them. Some of that is wear and tear as well. Heck, I am going to 40 in June.

Medications have come a long way recently. I have been on non steroidal anti inflamitories half my life but a new class of meds has really opened doors for me. Damage is damage done. I will carry what I have done to my body to the grave but what I am now on reduces the inflamation response that causes new damage.

It is an immunosupressor called Embrel. There used to be days that I would be able to get off the couch because of the pain in my back. Let alone exercise. 24 hours after my first dose I was back swinging a sword and working out. I sound like a pharmacutical rep but it was remarkable how much it reduced my bodies attack on itself. Talk to your arthritis doc about it. I believe it is also recommended for your condition.

I was freaked out by the immune supression at first but felt I had no other options. I have had no issues with infection or illness after two years on it. It is very expensive if not insured but it flat out worked. The shoulder I had thought I was going to get operated on mellowed out to the point where it is not throbbing anymore.

One testament to it's function is the first year I had it in the fridge at Chiurgons point at Pennsic mine was the only box. This year there were about ten boxes in there. The drug plans wouldn't pay for it if there wasn't evidence it works.

PM me if I can give you any more info. I wish you and anyone else struggling with this kind of thing the best.

J

[Patton Lives]

I can no longer do a flat snap with my right arm.

Then dont do dat.

Get together with Murdock, have a toast to screwed up shoulders and good times past, and go make yourself a poleaxe and roundel dagger

[Baron Alejandro]

Sir Johann is an inspiration to me. I'm fortunate enough to train with him semi-regularly, and anytime i think about slacking off or getting old or letting my elbows slow me down I think about Sir Johann, and I get up.

[Chadwick]

Surgeons LIKE to do surgery. It is what they do. It doesn't always work. It doesn't even mostly always work.

Speaking from first hand experience from rotator cuff surgery, a significant fraction of the surgical outcome depends on the recipient following the proper post surgery recovery instructions and (if appropriate) post surgery physical therapy.

I have seen many people in real life and the SCA willingly ignore the directions of their surgeon and/or physical therapist - and consequently at best have delay their recovery and at worst compound the original injury.

Some of this is likely due to the culture of "no pain - no gain" and "fight through the pain". There is a significant difference between "pain=temporary discomfort" and "pain=debilitating injury".

Unfortunately for those of us that participate in these full contact martial arts, our bodies become conditioned to a much higher pain tolerance than that of the average population - this in turn skews our injury perception. During my first week after my rotator cuff surgery my physical therapist would ask me my pain level - I could truthfully answer that my perception of the pain level was between 4 and 5 on a 0 to 10 scale - she was used to the general population which typically reported that the pain level was an 11 (on the same 0 to 10 scale).

There is also significant social pressure to resume training as soon as possible - frequently before the injury has completed healing (just because it no long actively hurts does not mean that you are fully healed). Again following the recommendations of your doctor and/or therapist is essential to have as complete a recovery as possible.

Even once you have completed the physical recovery prescribed by your doctor and/or therapist - you must realize that they have only prepared you for the "general environment" - you must still do an appropriate workup from your "general environment" conditioning level back to your SCA competative level. This may take a significant amount of time - in my case it took me an additional year following surgery and pt to bring my shoulder back to the presurgery level.

-Keith/Austin.

[BdeB]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7821122670

Gamers Rule!!!

[Nissan Maxima]

BdeB,
Ya know thats how the rest of the world views us. And they're right.

[BdeB]

Yup, no question.

(reformed Gamer here btw, that is how I found the SCA)

[Robert P. Norwalt]

Same boat here.
I lost my right-handed-off-side-snap about five years ago, at Border raids. I have tendentious, and arthritis in both wrists, both elbows, (blacksmithing and SCA) upper spine, (surgery) hips, knees, knuckles & ankles. I have a shortened achilles tendon from a full devastating rupture on the left side while fighting Bjorn, & planter factious (sp.) on the right from a construction accident. (Read; stupidity on that one.)
Pinched nerves in my neck, two hernia scars, ( one via body slamming a Tuchuck at Pennsic bout four years ago LOL!! Marshals were looking for us after, but we got away. )
Busted teeth,... Thanks Airborne. Broken nose, arm, fingers, & toe's, thanks to Football, Boxing, & Skateboarding. Broken leg, foot, clavicle, hip bone chip, & three broke ribs,... thanks motorcycle. God I loved that Yamaha. Note. You don't "see your life flash before your eyes", you just hit the guard rail, and when you wake up in the ambulance, it simply,... hurts.
I severed my brachial nerve cluster on the left arm, and dislocated my left ball and socket, got a lung full of zinc, metal in my eye, cut to the bone on numerous occasions, in different construction and work related mishaps. I'm leaving out fist fights, bar brawls, out in the field army training sessions, attitude adjustments, jealous rages, goat farming, horse back "diving", and out and out crime, before my conversion.
But I loved every minute of the two fisted hard driving maniacal bull shit that put me in this state. I get pissed off now and again, at an excessive blows, or someone Rhinoing, but I ain't sorry for nothing, and I don't want to know any other peace'nik way.
I hear of guy's my age (46) "retiring" from SCA fighting every day.

Not me. Shit. This. The SCA. The last refuge of a history freak, adrenaline junky. Where else can I get to stand in line with 2000 other maniacs, in full kit, and charge at each other and beat the ever loving crap out of each other, and still have a pretty good chance of going to work on monday? I'm too busted up and married to do Ultimate Fighting. I'm too old and "wore-out" for bodybuilding, power-lifting, and full contact Martial Arts? Couch potato? Not me baby. F^#k all that other,.. sitting on the sofa watching some over-paid, over-hyped turd make a million bucks to toss a little ball into a hoop. That's for chumps.

I know I'm not as effective in the shield wall as I once was. Since the open heart,... I ain't worth a plug nickel in Tourney so far in recovery. So what? I'm here to have fun, and whaling on people with my Danish axe, is the most fun I've ever had with ma' clothes on.

Drive on Vitus!

[MalcolmdeMoffat]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7521044027821122670

Gamers Rule!!!

ok that bites i can't see the video b/c Google Video isn't available in Iraq!!!

[Vitus von Atzinger]

I went to practice last night and suited up (first time in months),

I only fought sword and shield. I used a truly ridiculous monster sword and a lighter speedy one.

Today my shoulder is killing me, and it was killing me from the moment I started.

This was to check my current condition.

It sucks. Gotta do something.

Called a serious sports Dr. today....actually as I was sitting here.

[Euric Germanicus]

Not me. Shit. This. The SCA. The last refuge of a history freak, adrenaline junky. Where else can I get to stand in line with 2000 other maniacs, in full kit, and charge at each other and beat the ever loving crap out of each other, and still have a pretty good chance of going to work on monday? I'm too busted up and married to do Ultimate Fighting. I'm too old and "wore-out" for bodybuilding, power-lifting, and full contact Martial Arts? Couch potato? Not me baby. F^#k all that other,.. sitting on the sofa watching some over-paid, over-hyped turd make a million bucks to toss a little ball into a hoop. That's for chumps.

If I could shake your hand, I would.

I'm only 23 now and when I am 46 I want to be you. Seriously.

Vitus,

My master is out with a bad back at the moment, has been for months. Some people judge him in a negative sense because he has not been fighting. My squire brother and I see him as the dominating force he was, and all that he is able to teach us without throwing a blow. Even somewhat hurt (the stubborn bastard should have been resting) he could kick my ass blindfolded. I have endless respect for him, as others should have for you for all you have done.

Woe to those who speak ill of you Sir, as one day you might be able to fight without pain. Good luck with the doctor.

[Patton Lives]

This is a sign from God.

Put down the funky SCAdian shields. There are far more noble weapons available.


If it aint in a fechtbuch, it dont belong on the field
And the giant Talhoffer spear shields dont count