help on sealing jackware

Luthold · Post by **Luthold** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:38 pm

Greetings all,
I want to make a jackware canteen, my personna in late 14c and I dont like the wooden barrel ones.

The question is, I have jackware mug that is sealed with an epoxy instead of the standard beeswax. I am curious if anyone knows of this epoxy. It cures clear and is FDA rated food safe.

If I cant find that then beeswax it is. (I just and simpleminded at times and leave things lying in the sun and I wander off to talk to someone on the finer points on rivet peening.) So this part of the question is how much melted beeswax would one put into a vessel that one really cant see inside? Just fill it up, and swish it about and dump it out before it hardens?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:47 pm

I have heard of Gulf Wax. It apparently is a food safe wax. Not sure about epoxys though.

Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:54 pm

I'll guess it is either brewers pitch or the stuff they use to coat metal and wood bowls.

-+G

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:56 pm

Any easy place to find brewer's pitch?

Luthold · Post by **Luthold** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:07 pm

I have heard of brewers pitch but havent started to source it out yet. I like the ideal of the epoxy for you can use it with hot liquids.

Have either of you tried the pitch?

thanks for the input just the same

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:11 pm

I don't think there is a truly "non toxic" brewers pitch on the market. THe original stuff CERTAINLY wasn't non-toxic, and the new stuff isn't either. (But the definition of "non toxic" isn't necessarily what you think it is..)

I believe that Envirotex is non-toxic once dry, and can be used for that purpose. But it dries fairly hard.. it is prone to cracking if the canteen gets "Squeezed" (like you fall on it, frinstance).

Some folks just use hot wax.. but that needs to be re-applied every once in a while.

Search on leather bottyls (I think that is how it was spelled). There was a web-page out there with a how-to and it had detailed links to a bunch of suppliers of stuff they could be sealed with.

BTW: Wooden bowls are often done with Danish Oil.. that one is considered safe when dry. In fact, most of the "hardening finishes" are safe once dry.. including a nice dewaxed shellac. I prefer to use a renewable oil on the bowls that will be used, like mineral oil, walnut oil, one of those. They wear off, but that gives you the ability to re-sand, etc, should your treen develop splinters or surface crazing over time.

Maeryk

Clinker · Post by **Clinker** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:23 pm

For Brewer's pitch, try Jason Townsend & Son. Website jastown.com. They carry 18C reenactment goods. The pitch is $8/lb, in the canteen section of the online catalog.

issar · Post by **issar** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:35 pm

Ff you plan on using the Envirotex you might want to know that I contacted the company several months ago to find out about the food-safe-ness of their products. I explained what I was looking to do (line a drinking horn) and was told by them that sustained food or drink contact was not okay. If you drop a chip on a bar that was sealed with their products and then eat it that is one thing but not to drink out of. I suppose if you drank really fast it may be different.

Just a word of warning.
Issar

Kel Rekuta · Post by **Kel Rekuta** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:36 pm

Luthold wrote:I have heard of brewers pitch but havent started to source it out yet. I like the ideal of the epoxy for you can use it with hot liquids.

Have either of you tried the pitch?

thanks for the input just the same

The brewer's pitch from JAS Townsend is perfect for the task. I'll never again use beeswax for leather vessels. I want to smell hops in my beer not honey.

Cheers,

Wolfgaard · Post by **Wolfgaard** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:26 pm

Clinker wrote:For Brewer's pitch, try Jason Townsend & Son. Website jastown.com. They carry 18C reenactment goods. The pitch is $8/lb, in the canteen section of the online catalog.

Buy a cheap Crockpot to melt it down, which is what I do, leave the extra in there and cover it and just heat it up when you need it again.The Jas Townsend brewers pitch is refined pine tar and DOES smell like an xmas tree (makes the shop nice when using it)

I have tested it with hot liquids (coffee, tea, coco... ) the tar will not melt, but it will get malleable and soft. It is also hard enough to crack but easy enough to hold a lighter to the crack and melt it back together.

All in all it's good stuff... and period... But I would use epoxy instaed if I found the right one... just for cleaning/hygiene concerns..

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:29 pm

Buy a cheap Crockpot to melt it down, which is what I do, leave the extra in there and cover it and just heat it up when you need it again.The Jas Townsend brewers pitch is refined pine tar and DOES smell like an xmas tree (makes the shop nice when using it)

I have tested it with hot liquids (coffee, tea, coco... ) the tar will not melt, but it will get malleable and soft. It is also hard enough to crack but easy enough to hold a lighter to the crack and melt it back together.

Just a word of warning.. they did cancer comparisons for people who live in remote areas where the pitch-lined bota is still the wine bottle of choice, and found much higher rates of gastro and other cancers in those areas.

Maybe not something major for a weekend user.. but it could be something to keep in mind.

Maeryk

Destichado · Post by **Destichado** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:34 pm

coralation does not mean causation. :wink:

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:41 pm

coralation does not mean causation.

I'll remember that next time I go see an amateur armorer/craftsman for medical advice. :twisted:

Maeryk

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:43 pm

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0907/is_6_56/ai_85878516

Wolfgaard · Post by **Wolfgaard** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:57 pm

Maeryk wrote:
Buy a cheap Crockpot to melt it down, which is what I do, leave the extra in there and cover it and just heat it up when you need it again.The Jas Townsend brewers pitch is refined pine tar and DOES smell like an xmas tree (makes the shop nice when using it)

I have tested it with hot liquids (coffee, tea, coco... ) the tar will not melt, but it will get malleable and soft. It is also hard enough to crack but easy enough to hold a lighter to the crack and melt it back together.

Just a word of warning.. they did cancer comparisons for people who live in remote areas where the pitch-lined bota is still the wine bottle of choice, and found much higher rates of gastro and other cancers in those areas.

Maybe not something major for a weekend user.. but it could be something to keep in mind.

Maeryk

Just another reason to find out that food safe epoxy it seems. I would also see a pitch-lined bota (thinner leather than the 10-11oz that I use... and I've only used it on tankards/jacks) cracking easily and flaking and thus ingesting the pitch. Those remote areas also advocate keeping the damn thing filled and never cleaning it per se...

That can't be healthy either... Thanks for the heads up! Just because it was period doesn't mean it was safe... Trenchers, leaded Pewter and throwing your faeces into the street come to mind...

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:59 pm

Trenchers, leaded Pewter and throwing your faeces into the street come to mind...

Bah.. hte trencher thing has been overstated, wood is naturally anti-microbial, and I don't think leaded pewter was the main issue.. the romans used to sprinkle powdered lead on their FOOD. That was probably much more of an issue.

Maeryk

Destichado · Post by **Destichado** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:47 pm

I'd feel MUCH more safe using even unwashed (but scraped, of course) wooden trenchers than I would about hand-washed plastic plates.

The nature of wood will suck the moisture out of bacteria that might hide in cuts or splits, killing them in short order. Those same bacteria will live quite well in the nicks or cuts in plastic. Yet the USDA banned all wood butcher's blocks, and is still fine with hosed-down plastic cutting tables. :roll:

Dishwashers make it a moot point because the temperatures are high enough to denature protiens, but you can't put larger cutting boards (or any of your countertops!) in the dishwasher.
You see, I'm not *just* an armorer. :wink:

Kel Rekuta · Post by **Kel Rekuta** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:39 pm

Wolfgaard wrote:Buy a cheap Crockpot to melt it down, which is what I do, leave the extra in there and cover it and just heat it up when you need it again.The Jas Townsend brewers pitch is refined pine tar and DOES smell like an xmas tree (makes the shop nice when using it)

Interesting. The 50lb pail of it that I bought has no such smell. Its also very, very blond. Maybe I got a particularly refined batch? When hot, it gives off the faintest scent of freshly shaved pine wood. I couldn't possibly describe it as a Xmas tree scent. Lucky me!

I use an old coffee can heated over the BBQ to melt the pitch. The crockpot idea has merit though.

Luthold · Post by **Luthold** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:12 pm

It looks like the winner of this has yet to be decided. Now that I have the names of the products I was thinking about I can better research them.

I wholly appreciate the input from all parties.