Weapon Forms for Japanese Persona

[Odawara Taro Yoshinobu]

Hello,
Please forgive me for bringing this up, but I need advice. I know that to be a well rounded fighter, I will need to fight some form of sword/offhand blocking device

this goes aganst my persona, but the reality of the SCA is what it is.

I know I will be focusing on Greatsword and Glaive as my primary forms, but what what the shield alternative?

I have seen/heard of japanese using a fan shaped small buckler, can someone post pics of this if theyhave any? or offer any advice in this direction?

Thanks!

[Benalishlancer]

I'm not very sure of the actual time frame of the weapon, but didn't the japanese use batons with sidehook things? Kind of like a sai, but with only a prong thingy one side? I'll try to find some pictures of what I'm talking about when I get out of class, but I'm pretty sure it could qualify as an offhand blocking device. As to an actual shield, I don't think there's any evidence for one (although I seem to recall that discussion coming up a while back and someone here posted a painting with a shield in it I think). Also there is the butterfly shaped fan that could be used.

[Brother Logan]

Look here for the general idea:

http://www.e-budokai.com/articles/weapons.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_fan

http://www.888knivesrus.com/product/PC2182

http://www.stillmanblades.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=306

Ill post the design I did of an SCA one I made for a friend, we never built it but I am sure it would work. It would take a lot of practice to use but well worth it for persona gratification LOL

Cheers,
Leo

[Brother Logan]

A couple of other sites:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 7757953351

http://shogun.royalarmouries.org/galler ... ml#image10


(Edit by JT to use a shorter eBay URL to the same item...)

[raito]

Unfortunately, there are no good shield alternatives (and the subject has been talked to death elsewhere).

The butterfly-shaped fan is OK, but somewhat unstable in use (the wings need to stand up to abuse, which makes them heavy).

The jitte works, but a short sword works better in the SCA.

A saihai might work, or the marshalls might bounce it because of the tassel.

The smallish square works, but was only popular for a couple decades that nobody (except Date) recreates.

A tessen (closed) can be made, but seems unlikely to be used in armour, and again, a short sword is better in the SCA.

The FSO (fan shaped object) works, but isn't correct for any period.

When pressed to, I use an FSO ('cause I invented it, lo, those many years ago). But it ain't right, and there's no good alternative.

[Odawara Taro Yoshinobu]

Sir Raito,
I was thinking I had seen a picture of you using an FSO somewhere. How bad would it be to use a small round and call it a discarded jingasa?

[raito]

It could be worse. Just make sure it looks like a jingasa, and not something else.

[LordDraco3]

You could use a short sword and it be slightly correct. Musashi created the Hyoho Niten Ichi-Ryu which uses a longsword and a short sword. It was created in the early 17th century though, so It probably came about a little late but this is the SCA after all.

[DELETEMYACCOUNT]

Fact is, if you wanna be japanese and look japanese you'll fight with what the japanese fought with. If you wanna be successful in rattan combat you'll either work REAL hard at that or switch to something else.

[Odawara Taro Yoshinobu]

Yeah Animal I know. Just trying to balance the reality of the SCA and my own desire to be correct to my chosen persona.

[DELETEMYACCOUNT]

My background is in Japanese martial arts. When I had two legs that worked that's all I used and I did ok. It's a lot more work. That's all.

[Fearghus Macildubh]

What about a short axe in the off hand? All my books are still in boxes, but I know that in medieval Japan, axes both long and short were used. To avoid the impression of a madu, don't put a spike on the top or bottom of the axe, but hold the haft near the base of the axe head. It's not a shield, but if you need something than just the traditional Japanese weapon styles you have it.

[Koredono]

I'm curious why you feel a) you need some type of weapons form that involves something in your 'off-hand' to be a well-rounded fighter, and b) why you think being a 'well-rounded fighter' is a good or important thing?

I know quite a number of excellent fighters who use nothing but one specific style or form, and, by and large, no one thinks the lesser of them for it, especially if it conforms to their persona. And I know an even larger number of fighters, some quite skilled and others less so, who don't use one form or another because it doesn't fint their persona's model; Samurai and shields are no different, just perhaps the most prominent example, especially give our combat system.

And, as someone who was forced for a couple of years early in my career to fight sword and shield before giving up completely (excepting two occassions since getting knighted, when I had my shield with me from a demo and my gauntlets were either forgotten at home or broken for the day), I don't think that my limited knowledge with it particularly helped me down the path of the warrior; I think the most it has done has allowed me to be able to teach the basics to new fighters when no-one more competent with the form was available.

What Animal says is true - to succeed in the SCA combat system within Japanese weapons strictures is very difficult, but we have more than enough examples of success stories (I am far from the best, and Animal remembers when I was *awful*), all across the SCA, to show that with perserverance, it certainly can be done.

[DELETEMYACCOUNT]

I love Mongol stuff. So i fight with a saber or mace, with a small center gripped round shield. Sometimes I use a spear. To be honest I care a lot more these days about looking like what I'm supposed to be than I do about being a hot stick. I love the fight, always have, always will. But because of exposure to folks like Adam Berry and Matty D, and others too numerous to list I've decided that certain limitations are worth it. Especially when you strive and succeed anyway.

[Richard Blackmoore]

Hello,
Please forgive me for bringing this up, but I need advice. I know that to be a well rounded fighter, I will need to fight some form of sword/offhand blocking device

this goes aganst my persona, but the reality of the SCA is what it is.

I know I will be focusing on Greatsword and Glaive as my primary forms, but what what the shield alternative?

I have seen/heard of japanese using a fan shaped small buckler, can someone post pics of this if theyhave any? or offer any advice in this direction?

Thanks!

If you are going to have a Japanese persona and fight in Japanese armour, why fight with anything besides Japanese weapons? Unless you mean you want to win tournaments like crown and that is often hard to do without fighting sword and shield or SCA style two sword.

And if you mean you want to get knighted? I personally would respect the Japanese guy who was really, really good with his katana even if he did not win much due to the advantages shields have in the SCA combat system, much much more than the Japanese guy fighting with his Japanese armour & katana with a heater shield on his other arm. The guy that was true to his persona and whose weapons and armour made sense together is the one that gets my respect in terms of prowess. Often the better fighter loses due to weapons issues in the SCA system. Great swords being blocked by indestructible shields or basket hilts come to mind as unrealistic problems we have.

Now I'll admit I personally don't think we should knight Samurai's (to me it does not make sense) but if we are going to knight them, lets knight the ones that do it right and take the harder road.

[Ottokar]

When I am required by the rules of the list to use a 'shield,' I request permisssion from the marshal-in-charge and my opponent to use my gumbai uchiwa - a stricty defensive 'weapon' that is slightly worse for the wear. I really need to add a 'shield edge' to it.

I agree with Count (?) Raito's assessment that it is somewhat unstable, easily 'spun' or 'turned' in the hand when fought passively. Fighting more actively, blocking more on a parallel as opposed to a perpendicular line, helps reduce the torque.

[Richard Blackmoore]

When I am required by the rules of the list to use a 'shield,' I request permisssion from the marshal-in-charge and my opponent to use my gumbai uchiwa - a stricty defensive 'weapon' that is slightly worse for the wear. I really need to add a 'shield edge' to it.

I agree with Count (?) Raito's assessment that it is somewhat unstable, easily 'spun' or 'turned' in the hand when fought passively. Fighting more actively, blocking more on a parallel as opposed to a perpendicular line, helps reduce the torque.

Cool looking. Was its historical usage as a shield or some kind of odd edged weapon that you could also block with?

[Ottokar]

Above is a more traditional version of the gunbai uchiwa. It is a type of 'war fan' used by generals to signal the officers on the field. They typically have a metal or wood center rod and a metal, leather, wicker or some other material 'fan'. Since strategy (heiho) is not entirely in the hands or mind of man, the fan is sometimes used as a focal point for divine power and special rituals might be used in their construction.

While the gunbai uchiwa is not a weapon or a shield, a rather well known story recounts how a mounted force of Uesugi Kenshin forced its way into the command force of Takeda Shingen. In desperation, Takeda used his fan to block a number of blows from Kenshin before Takeda's personal guards drove Uesugi's men away. But this is an unusual use for the device and I only do so because there are times when I must use something for a shield. (I sometimes call it my buckler on a stick.)

[Brother Logan]

Here is the design for a SCA Gunbai I did up for a friend. The extra weight of the basket hilt we ended up using helped with the whole torque thing with the added benifit of changeing the blocking point more to the basket. This enables him to use it more like a buckler. The next one will have the cup/basket as close to the fan as possible to take even better advantage of the whole balance torque problem.

Cheers,
Leo

[Ottokar]

Here is the design for a SCA Gunbai I did up for a friend.

That would be a good match to a basket hilted katana.

[Uneg]

That would be a good match to a basket hilted katana.

This makes my head hurt...

[raito]

I can only say for myself why I choose to use a shield in certain situations.

Firstly, it allows me to train others, which I believe is part of my Oath. I may not be a specialist, but I seem to be able to teach novices tolerably well.

Secondly, and in conjunction with the first, I believe that I'm a good authorization opponent, and frequently that requires the use of a shield.

Thirdly, some tournaments require its use. Even though historically Raito might not have ever used one, he would not bow out just because some namban says the terms use something unfamiliar.

Fourthly, it gives me credibility to use it in melee from time to time. Fighters are an obstinate lot, and showing that I'm willing, albeit rarely, to stand in the line smooths things over when I'm trying to train others.

Fifthly, there are those who speak of the differences between the Knight and the Samurai. I am not content to simply be a Samurai within the SCA (as if that weren't enough), I must also be a Knight, which requires the weapons of the tournament, as practiced in the SCA. There is cinsistency, and there is slavish consistency. I prefer to know what compromises I make, and why I make them.

[Richard Blackmoore]

Above is a more traditional version of the gunbai uchiwa. It is a type of 'war fan' used by generals to signal the officers on the field. They typically have a metal or wood center rod and a metal, leather, wicker or some other material 'fan'. Since strategy (heiho) is not entirely in the hands or mind of man, the fan is sometimes used as a focal point for divine power and special rituals might be used in their construction.

While the gunbai uchiwa is not a weapon or a shield, a rather well known story recounts how a mounted force of Uesugi Kenshin forced its way into the command force of Takeda Shingen. In desperation, Takeda used his fan to block a number of blows from Kenshin before Takeda's personal guards drove Uesugi's men away. But this is an unusual use for the device and I only do so because there are times when I must use something for a shield. (I sometimes call it my buckler on a stick.)

Nifty. Do you ever use them for actual signalling in SCA melee/war?

[Odawara Taro Yoshinobu]

Koredono-sama,
Sir Richard,
As has been stated, some tournament formats require weapon and "____" so I feel that i would need to be at least familiar with those forms. Just to compete.

Also, I have been told that (and I am not sure if this is Society law, Ansteorran law, or just Ansteorran tradition) that your opponent can refuse to fight any form EXCEPT weapon and Shield. If in that unlikely event, I had better know how to use a shield of some sort.

And yes, being "well rounded" is important to me because I feel that the Samurai were professional warriors, with a keen curiosity about anything related to waging war. In the event they found themselves in Europe, they would at least have tried the local weapons and styles.

Also, a person on the path of bushido, OR Chivalry should IMO be well qualified in all forms of combat. (except that rapier stuff, LOL J/K)

That doesnt mean that traditional japanese forms wont be my bread and butter, they will be, but I feel I am duty bound to be the best warrior I can be to better serve my liege lord. That includes, to my mind at least, being a versitile warrior.

Every list I enter, I plan to do so with either a Glaive, a Greatsword, or two swords. But if I have to use a blocking device, I want to know HOW.

[Brother Logan]

Here is the design for a SCA Gunbai I did up for a friend.

That would be a good match to a basket hilted katana.

Never said it was perfect, but it works very well. The original concept called for a cup/basket designed to look like a jappanese style gaultlet, painted in the same colors as his armour, to make it less noticeable. I'll say again that this is for SCA combat and not LH and I think it viable alternative if not a pretty one.

Just say'n

Cheers,
Leo

[Ottokar]

Nifty. Do you ever use them for actual signalling in SCA melee/war?

My leadership on the field has never extended further than my voice can carry or the example of my charging feet.

I agree with the sentiment of several here that samurai in the SCA should be familiar enough with a shield to be able to fight with one. I just hope noone ever gets a picture of me doing so.

It should be noted that the Chinese and Koreans fought with shields. Knowledgable samurai would not have been completely ignorant of them. And, of course, those who play by the 'visitor to Europe' concept would have trained with shields, if possible.

Brother Logan, I have little doubt that the basket is protective and helps control the gunbai. I used to have one on mine. But I never felt 'right' about it since I fought without a basket on my swords. Why should I have one on the fan and not on a sword? I couldn't answer that to my own satisfaction, so I removed the basket. I think the 'faux gauntlet' idea to very interesting.

Fan-shaped objects, tedate, gunbai (with or without baskets), and heaters all represent a compromise of one sort or another. Just like attached menpo -v- detached menpo -v- bar grill. Just like rigid-shikoro -v- floating shikoro -v- hidden neck protection. All sca samurai face these questions and we have come up with several different solutions. Our different choices are instructive and I know I learn from the approach of others.

[Koredono]

Koredono-sama,
Sir Richard,
As has been stated, some tournament formats require weapon and "____" so I feel that i would need to be at least familiar with those forms. Just to compete.

When I was squired to Sir Ogami, my only options would have been
a) fight with only a one-handed sword (which I did on more than one occasion), or
b) do not fight in that tournament at all (which I've also done).

Look at it objectively: if you're fighting in it for the joy of it, how much joy will you get by beaten like a baby seal, because you're (almost) completely non-proficient in the form? If you're fighting for the reknown, how much will you get with that lack of skill? If you're fighting for the honor brought to your lord, how much is there if you get (relatively) easily beaten, because you lack skill with that form?

Regardless of how you look at it, there's nothing to be gained by it.

Also, I have been told that (and I am not sure if this is Society law, Ansteorran law, or just Ansteorran tradition) that your opponent can refuse to fight any form EXCEPT weapon and Shield.

Well, it's certainly not Society regs, and I can't find it under Ansteorran regs either; I think it's unlikely that it's there, given that it also doesn't appear that combattants in Ansteorra are required to be auth' in weapon & shield first.

So, at most, it's an Ansteorran tradition, and while I don't live there, it's one unlike any I've ever heard of before.

If in that unlikely event, I had better know how to use a shield of some sort.

And yes, being "well rounded" is important to me because I feel that the Samurai were professional warriors, with a keen curiosity about anything related to waging war. In the event they found themselves in Europe, they would at least have tried the local weapons and styles.

I will grant you that they quite possibly would have tried it. But, if they did, I'd be willing to bet they would have used a shield of the style of the area they were visiting, and not use some object from home that was unsuited to the task at hand.

Also, a person on the path of bushido, OR Chivalry should IMO be well qualified in all forms of combat. (except that rapier stuff, LOL J/K)

I'm afraid I can't agree with you there - we have many historical references to samurai who spent their entire lives perfecting their skill with one form, to the exclusion of all others, who were considered excellent examples of bushido; excluding only one, a substandard form practiced by the 'Southern Barbarians' (period denigrating term the Japanese had for Europeans), would seem trifingly easy.

As for rapier, well, good technique is good technique - while the weapons are lighter, and the armor less protective, and the calibration 'softer', any well-trained fighter should be able to become a fairly accomplished fencer in relatively short order.

That doesnt mean that traditional japanese forms wont be my bread and butter, they will be, but I feel I am duty bound to be the best warrior I can be to better serve my liege lord. That includes, to my mind at least, being a versitile warrior.

If being versatile makes you a better warrior, certainly; but do you really think that passing familiarity with that form will really help you the other 99% of your fighting time? I don't think so, which is why I haven't picked it up more than three times in the past 15 years, and believe me, I've gotten much better in that time frame.

Every list I enter, I plan to do so with either a Glaive, a Greatsword, or two swords. But if I have to use a blocking device, I want to know HOW.

In that instance, as much as it pains me to say it, I would recommend you pick up a heater; while a samurai with sword and shield looks 'wrong' to the SCAdian eye, I think it looks far less 'wrong' than fighting sword and tessen-as-shield would to Japanese visiting Europe during period.

[Richard Blackmoore]

I think Koredono pretty much answered as I would, but just so you know I am taking you seriously and appreciate your efforts to do things right, here are my answers, prefixed with R>

Koredono-sama,
Sir Richard,
As has been stated, some tournament formats require weapon and "____" so I feel that i would need to be at least familiar with those forms. Just to compete.

R> I can understand you doing that and I don't hold it against you. However if I were a Samurai, I'd choose to become the best I could be with the wide variety of Japanese weapons suitable to that persona. I would probably simply not fight in tournaments at all as inappropriate to my persona. And if for some reason I did and found that I was 'required' to use weapon and shield, I'd probably walk into the lists with a one handed sword length Japanese sword and a borrowed shield, then drop the shield at the lay on and use the sword only. I'm funny that way. Very stubborn about being true to my persona, though I would make an attempt to meet with the requirements set by my European hosts who were holding the tournament. Being stubborn is not always a good thing I guess, at least in the way it affects your win loss ratio; but I'd rather 'do it right' and win less, than 'do it wrong' just to game the combat system to my advantage. If I did use the shield, I would probably make it clear that I was merely trying to comply with the wishes of my hosts rather than doing this as a choice.

Also, I have been told that (and I am not sure if this is Society law, Ansteorran law, or just Ansteorran tradition) that your opponent can refuse to fight any form EXCEPT weapon and Shield. If in that unlikely event, I had better know how to use a shield of some sort.

R> I am not familiar with that at all. You can decline a fight and forfeit it, but you can't require your opponent not to use a given form. Unless there is something in Ansteora regarding this, which I am not aware of. I've fought a ton of Ansteorrans, none ever asked me to not use a given form.

And yes, being "well rounded" is important to me because I feel that the Samurai were professional warriors, with a keen curiosity about anything related to waging war. In the event they found themselves in Europe, they would at least have tried the local weapons and styles.

R> But a Samurai would not have found himself in Europe during the SCA period, except maybe at the very end. When they did interact with Europe, I'll agree they were very interested in differences in armour and weapons. So maybe they would have tried them, but by then the heater sheilds were long gone, so it does not help with that. Unless you want to ignore the timeframe issues. I remember MacPherson had made a late period roped breastplate for one of the mid realm female fighters a long time ago, but she had a Japanese persona. So I was on the list field listening to her describe this to Brion Thornbird (Brian Price the armourer and author). "So, Roberto made this really nice European breastplate, with hand roped edges." Brian "Uh huh. Where's the roping?". Lady "Oh, well he surmised the Japanese would have would have gotten the armour in trade or captured it, would have wanted more mobility or would not care for the roping." Brian "OK, so where's the roping". Lady "Well, after he made the breastplate and did the roping, he cut it off." Brian "He cut it off before you ever wore it?" Lady "Oh yes." Brian with pained look "Why didn't he just make a breastplate without roping?" Lady with smile "That is not how it would have happened in period." Brian "Where is he? I'm going to kill him."

Also, a person on the path of bushido, OR Chivalry should IMO be well qualified in all forms of combat. (except that rapier stuff, LOL J/K)

R> I personally think that if you want to be a good Samurai, you should be skilled in the weapons a samurai would use and be aware of the weapons your enemies use against you. You don't necessarily need to have competence in the use of your enemies weapons. Knights for example knew what longbows were for and that they had their uses, that does not mean they chose to become proficient in combat longbow, you had archers for that. Though knights appreciated bows and often used them for hunting. Now if you really want to be a knight in the historical model, then sure, you should want to be skilled in the traditional European knightly weapons forms, lance/spear, sword, possibly mace, axe, polearms, etc. and depending on your period, some familiarity with shields at least for the joust even if you are a 15th or 16th century type where knights had largely stopped using shields in battle. But then we are back to do you want to be a samurai, a knight or both and how do you define chivalry?

That doesnt mean that traditional japanese forms wont be my bread and butter, they will be, but I feel I am duty bound to be the best warrior I can be to better serve my liege lord. That includes, to my mind at least, being a versitile warrior.

R> A valid personal choice. I understand. But when I see a Samurai with a katana and an early period European style Norman Kite or later heater, it just looks so very, very wrong. Nothing wrong with learning other skills though, I agree.

Every list I enter, I plan to do so with either a Glaive, a Greatsword, or two swords. But if I have to use a blocking device, I want to know HOW.

R>Fair enough. Do you really enter many tournments where a blocking device is required though? As opposed to, you feel you will be more successful using a blocking device as most of your opponents will be and that is a big advantage with the SCA combat system.

[Odawara Taro Yoshinobu]

Koredono-sama
Sir Richard,
Thank you for your replies. I will consider them carefully.

[raito]

Yes, I've messed up the quotes.

R> But a Samurai would not have found himself in Europe during the SCA period, except maybe at the very end. When they did interact with Europe, I'll agree they were very interested in differences in armour and weapons. So maybe they would have tried them, but by then the heater sheilds were long gone, so it does not help with that. Unless you want to ignore the timeframe issues. I remember MacPherson had made a late period roped breastplate for one of the mid realm female fighters a long time ago, but she had a Japanese persona. So I was on the list field listening to her describe this to Brion Thornbird (Brian Price the armourer and author). "So, Roberto made this really nice European breastplate, with hand roped edges." Brian "Uh huh. Where's the roping?". Lady "Oh, well he surmised the Japanese would have would have gotten the armour in trade or captured it, would have wanted more mobility or would not care for the roping." Brian "OK, so where's the roping". Lady "Well, after he made the breastplate and did the roping, he cut it off." Brian "He cut it off before you ever wore it?" Lady "Oh yes." Brian with pained look "Why didn't he just make a breastplate without roping?" Lady with smile "That is not how it would have happened in period." Brian "Where is he? I'm going to kill him."

Actually, there was a religious mission in Italy, somewhat in the 1420's, I think. Somewhere around 20 Japanese. Somehow, I don't think that they were interested in weaponry. I can't recall that any Japanese travelled to Europe with the Portugese at the end of period, but I could be wrong there.

The incident you describe would be Countess Ariake's namban-do. Yes, it was made as a proper European suit, then hacked up to Japanify it, as was done in period.

[Baron Alejandro]

I can't recall that any Japanese travelled to Europe with the Portugese at the end of period, but I could be wrong there.

Beg your pardon, sir, but you are. There was a Japanese embassy to Spain in the late 1500's. They were known in the court of Philip II, King of Spain (the guy who sent the Armada). The embassy was noted for teaching origami to the Spanish courtiers; this developed into an offshoot of origami native to Spain called pajarita.

Citation - Philip of Spain, by Henry Kamen, Yale University Press 1999, ISBN 0300078005

Additionally, Japan and England had contact in the early 1600's. The Emperor of Japan at that time sent a full suit of armor to James I; that set of armor is still preserved in the Tower of London.


We now rerail you into your previous discussion.

[mordreth]

Here is the design for a SCA Gunbai I did up for a friend.

That would be a good match to a basket hilted katana.

I'd have to dig for it, but there was a reference in the Nieu Amsterdam arsenal for "Item - Japanese cutlasse rehilted and with a basket"

[Richard Blackmoore]

I can't recall that any Japanese travelled to Europe with the Portugese at the end of period, but I could be wrong there.

Beg your pardon, sir, but you are. There was a Japanese embassy to Spain in the late 1500's. They were known in the court of Philip II, King of Spain (the guy who sent the Armada). The embassy was noted for teaching origami to the Spanish courtiers; this developed into an offshoot of origami native to Spain called pajarita.

Citation - Philip of Spain, by Henry Kamen, Yale University Press 1999, ISBN 0300078005

Additionally, Japan and England had contact in the early 1600's. The Emperor of Japan at that time sent a full suit of armor to James I; that set of armor is still preserved in the Tower of London.


We now rerail you into your previous discussion.

Good points, unfortunately the SCA cutoff is 1600, which is why the Japanese/English contact does not help. If it is after 1600, we can't use it in the SCA.

The Spanish one from the late 1500's is the one visit I was aware of, at the very tail end of the SCA period as you noted. But I don't recall Samurai's noted as part of that contingent, though I could be wrong. But no record has been found indicating Japanese warriors fighting in the tournament lists while there as guests, much less with their Japanese armour and weaponry. But interesting nonetheless.

[Richard Blackmoore]

"The incident you describe would be Countess Ariake's namban-do. Yes, it was made as a proper European suit, then hacked up to Japanify it, as was done in period. "

Yup. That is the one, I was drawing a mental blank on the name. Thanks!

[Kaijin]

Not sure if this helps but I have had a lot of success(ie haven't died as horribly as others predicted) vs Sword and shield using a rattan equivilant nagamaki: http://mingdao.ftvnet.net/bbs/attachmen ... img005.jpg
(think great sword with more handle and less blade)

It's like a single sword blade length, but with more leverage for pushing people's shields around, and a long base with which to block and perry on the "offside".

Might not work for you, but you might want to give it a try if your kindom's rules allow such a weapon

Since making mine it has been made illegal in Meridies; haven't faught yet since moving to Atlantia.