Leather helm project

HammerHand · Post by **HammerHand** » Thu May 25, 2006 3:48 pm

________ING AWESOME!!! Are you going to dye the skull halves also? Just thought I'd offer, but don't worry about it.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Thu May 25, 2006 3:59 pm

Hammerhand, again, thank you so much - both for your kind offer and your kind comments.

Yes, the helm halves will be dyed black, then waxed and buffed for a bit of a shine. I'm not ready to dye the helm yet though because I still need to make the crest and I may need to mark some things on the helm (using a black sharpie). Once the crest is finished, then I will go ahead and dye the helm. I can't WAIT to get to that point!! Man I hope this all works out.....

Thanks again,
Cat

Hew · Post by **Hew** » Fri May 26, 2006 4:35 am

Now I'm confused.

With the steel backing, is this helm to be used for SCA rattan combat? Or is that just to prevent the nasal and occularia (sp?) from curling?

Looking nice though, whatever it's for.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Fri May 26, 2006 9:50 am

The steel is just there to make for more secure attachment, and to keep the leather from being floppy or curling. The problem is that it made the helm unbalanced and it's now much heavier in the front. Although I didn't really want to, I think I now will add a maille drape in the back to counter the extra weight in front. I just hope the weight of the maille doesn't cause the sides of the helm to squish in. Plus, now I will need to degalvanize the maille and blacken it to make it look right, and that's just going to add more time to the project. At any rate, I think it needs done, so if it takes more time, it takes more time.

Thanks again,
Cat

T. Finkas · Post by **T. Finkas** » Fri May 26, 2006 11:04 am

Wow, can't wait to see it complete! Thanks so much fo sharing the in-progress photos, they are very interesting. It's looking incredible so far.

Cheers,
Tim

P.S. Your kitty is the spitting image of my Biscotti

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Fri May 26, 2006 2:21 pm

Thanks so much.

I guess my cat has 2 look a-likes now. The only problem with MY cat is that she's mean. Real mean. Oh, I know she LOOKS all innocent and stuff, but don't let looks fool you.

Ok, I need some opinions. I russeted the steel and the rivets. Which do you think looks better? Shiny steel rivets or the russeted ones? I can't decide......

Here's the pics for comparison.

Cat

Benedek · Post by **Benedek** » Fri May 26, 2006 2:37 pm

i like the russetted look...kind of ties it all together, but what do i know

Yojimbo · Post by **Yojimbo** » Fri May 26, 2006 3:36 pm

Russeted !!

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Fri May 26, 2006 3:59 pm

Ok, that's 2 for russeted. I'm sure if I wait long enough I will get votes for both and end up as undecided as I am now.

Well, let's just use the russeted. That was my original plan, so I should just stick to it. (Plus it took me forever to russet all of these.)

Thanks!
Cat

Lord O'Quinn · Post by **Lord O'Quinn** » Fri May 26, 2006 4:15 pm

Russeted,

and may I say, that helm is turning out AMAZING!!! I wish I could play with leather like that!

HammerHand · Post by **HammerHand** » Fri May 26, 2006 5:12 pm

Make it 3 for russeted!!

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Fri May 26, 2006 6:40 pm

Russeted also, and it sure is gonna be nice.
Thanks for the pics.

Hal

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Fri May 26, 2006 9:50 pm

Russeted it is! And thank you so much.

I have gotten to the point where I am too tired to work on this any more tonight, so it's time to quit for the day. Some things are not lining up perfectly, but they are where they are now. I'm pretty dissappointed about that because I tried so hard to get it perfect. I just really don't know what I'm doing yet - I think that's the problem.

Here's some progress pics. I had forgotten to dye the strips that go under the crest, so I will do that tomorrow. I still need to trim the bottom band out in the eye holes, I still need to make the crest, and I need to make some new birdie guys that will sit at each end of the crest. Oh, and I need to dye the helm itself. And make the maille, and figure out how to pad this, and figure out how to make the chin strap. Honestly, I think this was a bit too big of an undertaking for me as I am feeling quite overwhelmed. Feeling this overwhelmed has slowed me down a good bit too - most of the time I have no idea how to proceed. Anyway, I'm going to give the dog a bath and go to bed. Here's the pics.

G'night,
Cat

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:51 pm

Well, I got the crest cut out and shaped. It came out a little lumpy along the sides, so I may have to get it wet again and see if I can smooth it out some. I have already sewn the two halves together at the top, so I don't think I can get a hammer in there to dish it, but maybe I can push it out with my fingers. The crest will be sewn down to the strips that it sits on, but for now it's just balancing on top.

Soooo....next I need to dye the remaining pieces, get the crest sewn to the strips, make the maille, blacken it, figure out how I am going to attach it (probably will sew it directly to the helm along the sides, and then sew it to leather strips riveted to the nasal), and get everything riveted together.

Getting closer and closer to finishing......

Cat

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:00 am

Another progress pic. The metal occular supports are drying from their coat of polyurethane, so I don't have all of that attached. I should have more pics tomorrow.

Cat

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:39 am

Couple more pics...
Cat

MacGowan Metals · Post by **MacGowan Metals** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:43 am

why isn't there a drool emoticon?

Oh well.

:drool:

Jason

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:26 pm

Very nice! I like your approach to making the ridge work in leather...I may make one like that sometime.

Can you explain why you felt the occulars needed the metal reinforcement? It seems to me that the leather should have been sufficient.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:53 pm

Well, the nasal leather is kinda thin (6 to 7 ounce) and seemed kinda weak to me. I had made the original one out of 1/4" thick leather, but it was way too bulky looking. Plus, since the eye holes are cut out of the helm itself, there was very little room to attach rivets to hold the pieces on, and I don't think it would have been secure enough. With the steel on there, it's nice and secure, and strong. I russeted the steel so that it's less noticeable, and as it is, you can barely see it. The drawback is that it added extra weight to the front. I think with the maille on there, and the right padding and strapping, the extra weight in the front won't be an issue.

Thanks again,
Cat

Roibeard MacNeill · Post by **Roibeard MacNeill** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:25 pm

Cat...I am in awe of your artistry with leather...I am inspired to become a better leatherworker from just looking at this work.

***Bowing rapidly, being not worthy and all*** :wink:

I have only one Teensy-Weensy criticism (I feel really bad for even saying this because you totally rock and this project is magnificent)...and for all I know it may have been done for strength or mayhaps you are working on a purely representational version of the original construction but,

(jumping behind a wall waiting the flack I may get)

The occular is a bit too high on the piece. If the browridge would be just below the top of the bottom band it would have been just like the original helm.

Other than that it is one of the very best works of leathercraft I have ever seen. I look forward to every post with new pics.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Tue May 30, 2006 3:17 pm

Thank you so much for your kind comments!

I know exactly what you mean about the discrepancy (There are several). Actually, I don't think the eyes are too high, I think the decorative band is too low. The mistake is in the patterning of the bottom band, as I had meant for it to stick out above the eyes (and I thought it was going to until I had everything put together and realized it didn't). The band around the bottom is also too wide, and flairs out too much at the bottom. This is also a result of bad patterning, and improper shaping/patterning of the helm halves themselves. The bird guys are too short and in the wrong position (can't be fixed now), and the eyebrows don't angle out as much as I wanted them to.

At first, I was REALLY bummed out by all of these things (and a few others). In fact, I had kinda lost the will to even work on it, but I'm glad I decided to go ahead with it. What happened was that I got in over my head with this project. I tried to make something that was just a little beyond my reach, but the lessons learned were worth it although I am still scratching my head about how to do some of the things that didn't come out right. If I made another one right now, it would be better, but it would still have some of the same mistakes because I just don't know how to do it correctly.

I am pretty happy with it for being a first try, but like I said, I am dissappointed as well.

Thanks again!
Cat

Roibeard MacNeill · Post by **Roibeard MacNeill** » Tue May 30, 2006 3:42 pm

Cat...as they say, Artists are their own worst critics.

What you have created here is magnificent and everytime I see it it takes my breath away. The mistakes at this point are neither here nor there to the overall stunning beauty of the work. All of this comes naturally to you (as previous projects and this one show) and you will only get better and better.

I look forward, as all of us do, to see the work completed.

Hats off to you, M'lady...

critter · Post by **critter** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:51 pm

bah bah bah drool drool drool..........uhhhhhh....wow...no...WOW......WOW :shock:

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:19 pm

Thanks so much! :oops:

As I have always said, I didn't do this on my own. I could never have done any of this without the help and advice I have gotten from people on this board - either in person (Thanks Niall!!) or via this forum (Thanks everybody!!). I am truly greatful!

Thank you all so much!!

Cat

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:23 pm

Ok, I wanted to make sure maille wouldn't cause the sides of the helm to squish in, so I tied an aventail I had to the helm. With the even distribution of the weight, it worked just fine. So anyway, I am going to make an aventail similar to the one pictured, but in 17 gauge, 1/4" id rings. It will not have dags, and I am going to strip the galvy and blacken it (if I can figure out how). I know the original is not pictured with maille, but I think I need it on there to help balance the extra weight of the steel nasal. Don't quite know how that is going to work yet as I will also be adding even more weight to the front, but I am hoping that there will be enough extra weight in the back an on the sides to counter this. Does this shape look ok? I remember seeing a valsgarde/vendel type helm with maille hooked on in this fashion. (Well, the maille was more of a concretion when they found it, but it was attached all the way around the helm, and around the nasal, plus I have seen reproductions made this way.)

Anyhow, here's the pic. Let me know what you think.

Thanks again!
Cat

Ps. Yes, I realize the helm is "naked", but he gets very sensitive about that so it's best not to laugh too loud.

btmcrae · Post by **btmcrae** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:15 am

With mail covering the face and only the eyes of the wearer visible, that will be one cool looking piece of head gear! I think some natural or darkened steel mail would go better with the helm than bright aluminum or galvy, but that is just me.

The shape looks good. Really nice detail work on the various pieces. Most leather helms I have seen don't look very good, but this one is certainly an exception.

critter · Post by **critter** » Wed May 31, 2006 11:55 am

now make one outta metal thats sca legal on the same design so i can squirm around in my chair and go i want i want i want.... :twisted:

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Wed May 31, 2006 12:31 pm

Hey, I have a question - Is perf plate SCA legal for anything other than rapier combat? Like, could I take 14 gauge (maybe even 12??) and drill a bunch of holes in it and use it in place of a bar grille? Would that be legal? (On a steel version, not the leather.) Would you feel safe in that? If I'm not mistaken, I think the helm (or the grill) has to come to at least 1" below the chin, so I would have to make a full face mask out of the perf plate (which would then be covered with the maille).

If so, that may be something I could do, since I can't weld. Anyhow, let me know 'cause I'd be interested to see if that would work.

Again, thanks so much!
Cat

MacGowan Metals · Post by **MacGowan Metals** » Wed May 31, 2006 12:39 pm

I don't know about its legality in the SCA, but I know my group allows it in rebated steel combat.

And I think I'd look to see if you can get pre-perfed plate, as opossed to making it yourself Cat. But I'm lazy and would hate to bore it myself. Even with a drill press.

Just my thoughts.

BTW, mcmaster-carr.com has perf plate. Can't remember the thicknesses. More spendy that a local steel dealer, but garunteed to have it in stock.

Jason

critter · Post by **critter** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:48 pm

it certainly should be legal as long as the thickness is up to specs...and the eye slots we're small enough

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:30 pm

Well, I was going to use it inside the eyeslots instead of having a bar across the eye opening. I figured that way would be better for vision. Do you think it would be legal to have eye slots larger than 1" if they had perf plate covering the entire inside of the eye holes?

Thanks!
Cat

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Wed May 31, 2006 6:04 pm

yes, that would be completely legal, but look at the pic of the original, the eye hole isn't that big...

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:52 pm

Thanks for the responses about the perf plate. It makes me feel better that I could possibly make an SCA legal helm without having to weld anything.

I have a few more update pics. I've been real busy lately with family functions, so I haven't had much time to work on this. I need to drill a couple more holes, and put polyurethane on the rest of the rivets, then I think I am ready to start riveting it together.

I got the aventail started today, and that will take me a while to finish. After it's done, I need to get the galvy off and blacken it somehow, so that will slow me down too. I want to get the maille sewn on before I attach the rest of the pieces, so it will be a while before I can finally call it done.

Anyway, here's the pics. The helm isn't perfect, but it does look like I will actually finish it, and that's about all I can ask for with my limited experience.

Cat

Roibeard MacNeill · Post by **Roibeard MacNeill** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:17 pm

Bloody Hell! :shock:

Damn, Oh Damn...

Stunning!

Again (and I cannot reiterate this enough),that is some of the most beautiful leathercraft that I have ever had the honour of seeing!

Thank you for continuous sharing of this project...it means alot.

Duco de Klonia · Post by **Duco de Klonia** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:53 pm

Okidoki Cat,

Looks great!

Only, but only a very tiny point- the browband does not look very vertical to me, - will it change when you attach it permanent to the helmet bowl?

I will make the same helmet in steel - but in some time to come, now I'm working on some Peascod cuirass things for a customer and some other things...

Thanks for all the pics and comments.